1785
Vietnamese Refugees
18 JULY 1979
[Sir I. Gilmour.] in the world, the hon. Member for Sal- ford, East really demeans himself. This expulsion from Vietnam is taking place on a scale that is unparalleled anywhere else, and if the hon. Member has any standards at all he should condemn what is going on.
Mr. Alexander: Will my right hon. Friend accept that there is a difference in this country between refugees and immi- grants? Will he accept that we have an honourable history, over many centuries, of accepting refugees, and that many people on both sides of this House will be happy with his statement today? How- ever, will he consider deducting from the total number of immigrants that we accept from other countries the number that we are accepting today from Viet- nam?
Sir I. Gilmour: With due respect to my hon. Friend, there is a slight inconsistency between the first and second parts of his question. I entirely agree that there is a distinction between refugees and immi- grants. I also agree that we have an honourable record both on refugees and immigrants. But as they are not the same thing, and as we are faced with a problem which, up to almost a year ago, nobody expected, I do not think that it is right to join these two categories to- gether. They are relevant only in the sense that our country's capacity to ab- sorb new people is limited. I do not think that any closer connection is justi- fied
Mr. Shore: Precisely because so many people are now at risk in the South China Sea, and because we must fear that their numbers will greatly increase in the days ahead, may I ask the right hon. Gentleman not to take up a firm position-it would be wrong to do so at present-about the nature and extent of the commitment that we and others may have to undertake? May I also press him on the question of the real shortage of food supplies inside Cambodia? If a major source of exodus is the lack of food inside the country, clearly the best way to relieve that is to get food in.
Sir I. Gilmour: I agree, but, as the right hon. Gentleman knows, that is not always casy to do. The European Com- munity has acted. I take note of the right hon. Gentleman's comments, and
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Vietnamese Refugees
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if more can be done to alleviate the problem I shall see that it is done. How- ever, with respect, the right hon. Gentle- man is pushing things too far. After all, we have made a commitment and a conference will take place in Geneva in the next few days. Surely it is rushing matters to look beyond that. We have made the commitment that we were asked to make and we hope that the Geneva conference, which we have been instru- mental in setting up, will lead to an advance towards solving the problem. I do not believe that we should look fur ther ahead than that.
Mr. Speaker: Order. There is an- other statement to follow. I propose to call three more hon. Members from either side.
Mr. Ronald Bell: Is my right hon. Friend aware that every episode of immi- gration since the end of the war has been justified on the ground of extreme hard- ship? Those who have resisted that, like myself, have been accused of callousness on each occasion. That applies in the case of the West Indies in the 1950s, Kenya, Tanzania, Uganda, Bangladesh, and now Indo-China. Is my right hon. Friend aware that there is a real danger of self-indulgence in a matter of this sort, and that this overcrowded island in the North Sea should not be the ter minus of any major migration?
Sir 1. Gilmour: With respect to my hon. Friend I question his version of history. The initial impetus for immigra- tion to this country did not spring from misery it sprang from a feeling of being part of a Commonwealth in which people were allowed to migrate freely. That was the beginning of the matter. I do not believe that it is a question of self- indulgence. It is possible to be self- indulgent in either way-in a humani- tarian or non-humanitarian way.
Mr. Hardy: Does the Minister agree that most hon. Members appear to endorse the Samaritan position? Does he agree that in the parable the Samaritan paid for the kindness that he showed? In his statement the right hon. Gentleman suggested that the moneys would be pro- vided from the existing aid programme. Who will suffer as a result of that?
Sir I. Gilmour: I cannot answer that question. The hon. Gentleman knows
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