TNAG-0179-FCO40-215-Strength-of-Hong-Kong-Garrison-1970 — Page 204

dansam Vol 774 N025

And December 1961

Defence (The Gurkhas) 2 DECEMBER 1969

There are more men because it is not possible for a Gurkha man to go home an a fortnight's leave. He has to have

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period of many months off in order to go home on leave. Therefore, there have to be considerably more men in the battalion to ensure there are the same number of riflemen as there are in a U.K. battalion at any one time.

Mr. Dance: Would he not agree that that may be so, but that when the time comes, when they have to go into action, those people can be recalled and they will have a really up-to-strength_batla- for which, goodness knows, we have not got now?

Mir. Reynolds: The battalions are up to strength. Roughly one-quarter of the men are on leave at any one time. Thai is why there are more men in a Gurkha battalion than in a United Kingdom battalion.

We have to have a separate training organisation for them, which duplicates facilities that are available in the United Ungdom, but we will certainly not bring them all the way to the United King- dom and then back to Hong Kong. In 1971, when we will have 6,000 men, that aining organisation will cost £1.3 mil- lion a year. The hon. Member quoted a figure of £1-4 million as the cost for a British battalion. That is the cost in pay, etc., but many other things come into the true cost of a battalion.

While we have Gurkha battalions, we nood a Gurkha training organisation, which costs £1.3 million a year. Gurkha battalion fulfilling a similar role has exactly the same costs as a United Kingdom battalion for officers and equipment. With Gurkha troops, the head of that organisation and most of the supporting arms and services are largely United Kingdom-manned.

The figures which I have been able to work out, as accurately as possible, show that in 1971, when we plan to have 4,000 Gurkhas serving in Hong Kong, the cost will be about 61 per cent. of the cost of an equivalent United Kingdom

it stationed in Hong Kong, or nearly two-thirds when looked at overall. If they were stationed in the United King- dum. my information, which has been fairly carefully worked out, shows that a Gurkha battalion would cost slightly more than for a United Kingdom-recruited

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Defence (The Gurkhas) battalion stationed in this country. The hoa Member for Hendon, North (Sir Ian Orr-Ewing) shakes his head, but he has asked for figures and I am giving them. Whatever pledges his right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Hexham Mr. Rippon) makes, he cannot give a predge -= altor those figures, because tlag

are the cŪSAS.

I have no intention tonight of getting into an argument as between the effec

iveness of individual Gurkha or other batullons in the British Army recruited in die United Kingdom. I made my comments on the matter-the right hon. and warned Member has quoted them- in the debate in 1962/63, and I see no reason to change them. We must, how- ever, fuce the fact that the announcement then made was that we required a total of 190.000 soldiers in the Army, including 10,000 Gurkhas, to meet our then com- mitments. By 1971, the commitments will have been considerably reduced. We shall be our of Singapore. we are out of Aden and we shall be out of the Gulf. Commitments have been reduced and we are planning a total of 158.000 men, in- cluding 6.000 Gurkhas. United King- dom-recruited battalions are, thuretors, also being cut as well as the Gurkha Infantry battalions.

Sir Ian Orr-Ewing: That presupposes that we can recruit that number, but 43 of our 59 battalions are under strength and we are not able to recruit the num- bers of men we desire to recruit. The Minister is a thing that we shall be able to recrul them. If we cannot recruit in this county, surely we should stop the rundowa of the Gurkhas, sine: this bas ha: pened since the recent decision was taken to reduce to 6,000.

Mr. Reynoids: I accept that recruiting in this country is not satisfactory. Think ing back, hotover, the hon. Member will realise that battalions in the United King- dom were considerably more under strength in 1963. when the originai announcement was made. There is no doubt about that.

As regards use. I can only quote what was said in the previous debate, when the then Secretary of State pointed out that there might be circumstances when the use of Gurkhas could be restricted or their recruitment terminated. There are parts of the world where, for social or religious reasons, we would wish to use

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