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THE HONGKONG DAILY PRESS, FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 8TH, 1924.

TRANSFER OF MILITARY ESTABLISHMENTS.

THE ARBITRATOR'S AWARD.

EXPLANATORY STATEMENT BY COLONIAL SECRETARY.

A meeting of the Hongkong Legislative Council was held in the Council Chamber yesterday. There were present :- Hts EXCELLENCY THE OFFICER ADMINISTER

INO THE GOVERNMENT (Sir CLAUD Svaly, K.B.E., C.M.G.).

HIS EXCELLENCY THE GENERAL Orric

COMMANDING THE Troops (Major General Sir JoHN FOWLER, K.C.M.G., C.R.. D.S.O.).

Hon. Mr. A. G: M. Farenea, C.M.G.

O.B.E. (Colonial Secretary). Hoo Mr. J. H. KKMF, K.C., C.B.E.

(Attorney-General), Hon. Mr. Mc. MzsBER, O.B. (Colonial

Treasurer).

TEN-FLICH.

them very largely decreased in size. In provide drainage.. water and light, all addition, you have to farm these roads, matters of considerable expenditure.

A

As to the price. In the early spring of 1023 Mr. Perkins and myself, repre seating this Government, and Colonel Davy, representing the local military The proposition now is, what is the authorities, negotiated an agreement, value of these military lands under signed finally on the 31st March, 192, these conditions, namely, that we pre which was endorsed by their, Excellenties pare for the next two years to pay out the Governor and General Oficer up to $17,000,000, and after a period Commanding and was forwarded to the of three years we begin to receive these Imperial Government for approval. Cer. military lands, reduce thera very largely, tain correspondence ensued with the War any way up to 45 per cent in size by Office and in the meantime the prices of road-making, spent a considerable sum land rose very rapidly. The boom had in laying them out and then sell them I will put set in in full force. The War Office for what they will fetch. decided to investigate the matter itself some figures before hon. members in his Resolved that this Government upon the spot and in September, 103, connection. I think some of them have approves the acceptance of the award they sent out Sir John Oakley. On his heard of the selling forward for of Sir John Hubert Oakley dated the arrival the Government decided to invite a

March. Well, this opération is some- second day of November, 1923, in re-him to act as arbitrator with this limita thing of the same nature. A syndicate spect of certain lands situated the tion, that while his figures would not be of well-known business men in Colony of Hongkong now vested in the questioned, yet the Government of the 1923, bought a local property for $330.000, Army Council, as set out in Sessional Colony must reserve the right to reject subject to five years lease. In Paper No. 1 of 1921, and recommends them in tote. I think that this was a January, 1924, they paid $200,000 more that steps be taken, to give effect to it wise decision, because Sir John Oakley to be released from that five years as soon as possible.

lease. I am not putting forward the as Arbitrator must necessarily be in 3 It may perhaps clear the ground for alter for one side only, and as the roughly for the purposes of argument, more independent position than asures as absolutely accurate, but simply, an understanding of this complicated war Department were in a position that They were prepared to pay a for question if I begin by explaining the Principles caderlying the tenure of they did not care whether they sold or immediate possession of the land for military lands and transactions in those not, they were sure to stand by his which they would pay $350,000 for lands. The policy of the Imperial Gov-figure I may here express the opinion Possession in ive years. That is a pro- erament is laid down in what is known that the Colony has been very fortunate portion of seren to eleven. Now, we will of the Military Lands Circular des in getting an arbitrator of the calibre Murray barracks on the same pris

ciple. The sum awarded by Sir John' Hon. Mr. E. A. IRVING (Director of most immediately in point being the opinion will be endorsed by all who came Oakley is a foot.

patches of 1800 and 1904, the rulings of Sir John Oakley.

Take off 40 per following:

in contact with him. As both the Gor- cent. and; I think, at least that might "On account of the changing condi.ernment of the Colony and the local come off-for ronds, the rahus works out military authorities were in agreement at 83130 & foot. Well, if we sell that Hon Mr. . E. Wood (Secretary for occurs that Cokmial lands and buildings esses for either side.

tions of warfare, it not infrequently it was decided not to all separate wit in four years' time, the value we must Chinese Affairs).

The names of Ret is 937-50 a foot for that land when Het apart for military purposes cease prominent business men and valuers were prepared for building. Or. I will take to be necessary or suitable, to their pur- put before Sir John Oakley, and he some figures of actual sales which were pose, while at the same time, or sub called those whom wisheri

ho

put before Sir John Oakley. In 1919 sequently other lands and buildings hare gentlemen who gave evidence were the the Government bought, Beaconsfield to be acquired to meet the necessities of Hon. Mr. 4. G. Stephen, the Hon. Mr.Arcade and the buildings upon it for the garrison..

In 1990 the site where F. H. Holyoak, the ilon. Mr. Chow Shou 20.50 foot. Mr. R. B. McELDERRY (Clerk Ct military properties and their values Bernard, Mr. Henry Humphreys, 'Mr bought for $24.97 à foot. At the end of

It is farther considered that all such Son, the Hon. Mr. R. H. Kotewall, Mr. the Club Lusitano now stands should be treated as part of a capital. G. Bird and Mr. Gibbs. A number 1921 the old Post Office site was sold that their realizable or estimated values meat were also called. The Government was sold. for 819 & 2001.. sum devoted to defensive purposes, and of officers in the Public Works Depart for 800.00 a foot, that is exclusive of roads. In April, 1923, Wiseman's site should, as hereinafter detailed, be re- prepared elaborate plans showing the tained by the Colonial Government, and position of all lands sold at public aue! be held by them available towards the tions during the last 14 years in all provision of such other lands and build parts of the Colony, giving the upset logs as it may be subsequently recessary price, the realised price and the rate to secure for defensive purposes.

of Crown reat: and also plans showing all private sales, between private partice of land within reasonable distance of these large military areas. Sir John Oakley visited, accompanied by Colonel Davy and myself. a very large number of these sites in person.

Education).

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Hon. Mr. H. T. CREASY (Director of

Public Works).

Hon. Mr. H. E. POLLOCK. K.C.

Hon. 3. A. O. LANO.

Hon. Mr. Canw Shop-SON.

Hon. Mr. A. B. Lowz.

Hon. Mr. E, H. KOTEWALD

Council).

NEW MEMBER.

Mr. A. Wood, Acting Secretary for Chinese Affairs, took the oath and his seat as a member of the Council vice Mr. B. Hollifax, CB.E. (on leave).

XINUTES.

The minutes of the meeting of the Council held on December 20th, 1993, were approved and signed.

STANDING LAW COMMITTEE.

"With a view of removing any mis. understanding. Her Majesty's Gavern- ment baye thought it desirable to for mulate their proposals in the following

terms:

I think that

The

!!

105

Take Murray

Take the old Post Office site of $38.09 foot. Now the present value, at 7 per cent, if it was to be sold at that rate after five years, would be 895.75 & foot. The present value of the old Post Office site, if it is to be realised in ten years, would be 318.34 a foot. Parade ground on the same principle. Taking that 823 & foot, the price given, taking off for roads the value, as I have said, is 831.30 a foot. Take off the half dollar to allow for Crown rent, which will be reimposed for the land, that i leaves a value of 831 a foot.. i we are get $17.69 a foot for it. If we are out of our money for ten years we mist get

Our $17,000,000 will pot, of course, be

I EXCELLENT: As this is the first meeting of the Council this year it is necessary to appoint the Standing Law Committee which will consist of the Hon. Attorney General, the Hon. Colonial Treasurer, the Hon. Mr. Pollock, the Hon Mr. Folyoak and the Hon. M. Colony that, in the event of the lands tion with regard to these values" it is out of our money for five years we musti

Kotewall.

"The free surrender to the Colony of all Colonial military lands and build. ing no longer required by Her Majesty's Government on the engagement by the and buildings being required then or in the future for the defence of the Colony, The CULONIAL SECRET by command the Colony shall provide an equivalent of The Officer Administering the for the lands and buildings so surrender Government. laid upon the table Finaned, towards the satisfsution of the above

FINANCO

AN EXPLANATION OF THE VALUES.

A

860.91 & foot for this area.

In order to understand the exact posi- Leccssary to explain the agreement which is to be come to between this Govern ment and the War Department. special account is to be opened, to the credit side of which is to be put the spent at once. It will be distributed, as I have shown, over a considerable period Sum of £114,000, representing military respect of the two years, 1917-18 and Decessarily take us a very long period

21 1918-19. There will be further put to to get back that money which we put that credit side the value of military lands which will be sold to the military we got altogether five and a half million for the purpose of reprovisioning. That dollars from land sales. How long will alue will not be greater because the it take us to get back $17,000,000 from This proposal is based upon the lands are situated some distance from the sales of these military lands, apart

eial Minutes Nos. 1 to 5 and moved that mentioned requirements, and to that end atributions overpaid by the Colony in of years, but at the same time it must

they be referred to the Finance Com the value of the lands and buildings mittee for consideration.

The COLONIAL TREASURER seconded, and surrendered shall be ascertained and re corded, and any lands and buildings the motion was, agreed to.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY, by command provided out of that value shall be held by H.M. Government on the same tenure of HE the Officer Administering the Government then laid on the table the

15) and moved that it be adopted.`

as those surrendered.

In the 30 years 1901-1920 inculsive,

Report of the Finance Committeo (No. assumption that the Colonial military the centre of the Colony On the debit! from the ordinary land sales of the The CCLONIAL TREASURER seconded, and lands in question constitute a permanent side will be set this sunt, of approximately Colony? I will read extracts from a the motion was agreed to.

PAPERS.

$17,000,000, representing the purchase price of these military lands. That for any land which may be used for price, of course, includes the full value a public purpose. For example, there is built on Murray parade ground. a proposal that a new City Hill may be

Defensive Fund of the Colony, the

statement of the Government's casc integrity of which should be preserved,

which was put before the arbitrator. is kind or value, even though the The COLONIAL SECRETARY by command original lands themselves may be divert

fore the whole of the land surrendered Evidence has been called 13 to the probable period which must clapse be- of H.E. The Officer Administering the ed to civil purposes.

Accordingly, Government; laid on the table the follow whenever, any of such lands which have

can be disposed of by sale or otherwise. ing papers:-

been set apart for defensive purposes

It has been shown that in the years 1901- Award of Sir John Oakley in hare, from change of circumstances, or

1920 inclusive there were no great fluctua- respect of certain lands now vested from any other reason, ceased to answer The Public Works Department will tions in the suras received from land sales, in the Army Council.

the purpose for which they were set proceed as soon as may be to reprovision which totalled in the twenty years ap- Regulation made by the Governor in apart, and are in consequence surrender the garrison by forming sites and putting proximately $5,500,000. It has been Council under sections of thed by the Military Authorities their up any buildings that they require. The shown that in the years 1921 and 1997 Dangerous Goods Ordinance, 1573 value should be

treated 18 form first situation which they will begin to and the first nine months of 1623 the re- Ordinance No. 1 of 1873, as enacted ing a capital applicable, either im deal with is Gun Club Hill, which is recipts from land sales approximated to by section 2 of the Dangerous mediately or from time to time, so nlready military lands. There will be a total of $7,000,000. The Government Goods Amendment Ordinance, 1992, far as it will extend, to providing other no payment there in respect of the land. submits that, when the demand of the dated 18th day of December, 1923. finds or buildings which may be required It has been argued by some that by present boom is satisfied, there is no Order made by the Governor in the Colony for such purposes. putting the British batalion in that ground for supposing that receipts from

Council ander section of the

Valuation of Lands or buildings, position we shall simply be repeating the land sales during the following twenty Reats Ordinance, 1922, dated 90th day of December, 1923.

when required under the circumstances mistakes of the past. I do not think years will be appreciably greater than Notification by E.E the Gorarnor in above mentioned, should be made by that can be the case. We have a 100-foot the receipts during the years 1901-1020. ***** Sales during the years after the lili Council withdrawing the Order of the Colonial and Military authorities road on both sides of Gun Club Hill- the 30th August, 1923, proclaiming conjointly, or, in the event of their dis. Gascoigne Road on the Northern boun-tary lands are ready for the market will a 100-foot road across the not be confined to those lands, but will, Bangkok to be a place at which an agreeing, by an independent and com- dary and infections or contagious disease petent surveyor, to be chosen by a military authorities would not wish to all parts of the Colony. A proportion as heretofore, be spread over areas in Southern boundary. In any event, the meat between the Home and Colonial prevailed. Regulations and Rules made by the Governments, whose report should be go further afield, and the British garrison only of the proceeds, namely that part have as much title as anybody else to of the money which is received from the "Governor in Council under sections final"

The sale of the Military lands, will be avail: 23 (1), 25 (4), 26 (1) (f), 28' (5), There is this liability in respect of the amenities of existence here. 39 (8) and 4 (1) of the Merchant military lands, and there is the further second site which is under consideration able for re-imbursing the Colony in re- and I think will probably be chosen-spect of the eash paid out for Military Shipping Ordinance, 1889, dated obligation on the Colony to provide 20 is the ridge beyond the Standard Oil reprovisioning 10th day of January, 1824.

per cent of its revenue under the holding at Laichikok, which goes to the If, when the land is ready for sale, Order made by the Governor in Defence Contribution Ordinance, 1901, crown of the read down to the torpedo the Government places any large quantity

Council under section, 24 of the paragraph 5 of which reads:—

pier belonging to the Navy. I think upon the market at such rates as it will Rents Ordinance, 1929, dated 10th |

"The said percentage shall be hon. members know it: there is a small fetch, there will, conditions being normal, day of January, 1924.

deemed to be a fixed contribution pay-house at its Southern extremity. The be a general slump in land values which Order made by the Governor in

able by the Colony in full return for proposal is that we should level that hill. will upset all calculations based upon the the annual cost of the Imperial fill in the valley and construct a large past records of land sales; which records garrison, including all capital expen-cantonment. Theso works will neces. could not therefore form, any criterion as diture required for military lands add, sarily take a long time. It has been to the values which would be received buildings and the cost of maintenance suggested that the Gun Club Hill fer the lands in the circumstances sug- of all military works and buildings, barracks may be completed in three years gested.. If on the other band the Mili and the cost of lodging in lieu of and the cottonment in five years. Itary lands are offered at the prices then barracks and of other military charges think, personally, this is too optimistic prevailing in rospect of similar property whatsoever, provided that in no year a view. In any event we have to put the Government contends that all

past BEWARDS FOR ARREST OF PIRATES.

shall the sam paid by way of percen out our money for these now works over experience goes to prove that the inndr Hon. Mr. H. E. POLLOCK, E.0., in tage exceed the cost of the garrison a period of years, which may be five will be taken up very slowly and that accordance with notice previously given for that year.

and will not probably in any event be very many years must elapse before it asked. Es the Government offering The question of military lands tenure more thap ten. We cannot get any can possibly recover from sales of the rewards for information which leads to was the subject of constant friction and large suras of land from the military Military lands the money, with interest, the arrest and conviction of Pirates?" dispute over a period of many years until authorities until the Garrison has been which it shall have laid out in Military

The COLONIAL SECRETART replied: The the position was finally crystalised in the

reprovisioned. When the British hat reprovisioning. Expensive Crown land Government considers it inadvisable, in year 1005 by what is known as the Lewis talion goes to Ona Club Hill we hope has never found a ready market in normal the public interests, to make any state-agreement. Since that the rights to get the greater part of the land on times. The Old Post Ofico site was on mont as regards the measures that are of the military over their land, their this site. Therefore it will be appar- the market for a number of years, and it being taken for the apprehension of reserves and their encroachments have cnt. that, interest on our money plays did not find a buyer until late in 1921. pirates.

been absolutely defined, and it must be a most important part in this matter. In 1910 the Government proposed to put accepted as a postulate of the present Our money is going out for a definite the Cenotaph site up to auction na a THE MILITARY LANDS.

argament that these rights are absolute period and we can only recover it by marine lot at $30.00 a foot. The prospec- STATEMENT BY THE COLONIAL and that they must be bought at the use of theap military lands at some in- tive purchaser would not bid at this rate,

cotiating market value. This demand for definite future" period.

and it was decided that 825.00 would be SECRETARY."

the removal, of the garrison from its These values of Bir John Oakley ara a sufficient upset price. The prospective The COLONIAL SECRETARY: Before present position comes not from the for the lands in bulk. Tho Town purchaser's agent was uncertain whether moring the resolution which stands in Military Authorities but from the Colony. Planning Committee in its most intensive he would hid at this reduced rate, and my name, I must state that it is not The reasons are so obvious that it is not lay-outs puts aside 45 per cent of the the matter was allowed to drop. There proposed to ask bonourable members to necessary for me to refer to them at gross area for road purposes. In the has been very little demand for vacant wote upon is to-day. I propose to make any length. These large self-contained Praya East Reclamation the ares given Crown land at Kowloon Point, which has a statement explanatory of it, and if areas block the normal development of to roads is 42 per cont, not including been unoccupied for many years. any members should care to ask ques- the Colony and they isolate large busi the present Praya East road and not "Before the Military lands" can tions arising out of that statement, then nces districts one from another. The including the roads which will be made ready for the market, very large arean the Council can go this afternoon into Army Council has expressed itself as by private parties acrom the lots. Thero of new building land along the Eastern Committee for the purpose of those willing to sell at a price and it is now fore, in reckoning the amount of money Praya and to the north of the Kowloon questions. I beg, Bir, to move this re- for us to consider whether it is worth you are going to get back from these Peninsula will be available. aolution:

our while to pay that price.

military lands you have to contemplate

Council under section 5 of the Forest Officers. Ordinance, 1923, dated 24th day of January, 1924. All the foregoing Orders, regulations etc.. have been published in the Govern ment Gazette since the last meeting of the Council, and the Military Lands Award published as a sessional paper.]

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