1923-09-07 — Page 5

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II.E. THE GOVERNOR aid: The matter,

as the bon, rover of the motion has said is one of internal management of the hotel and its clients and I consider that it is one in which twa opinions are pos- sible. I think that we do bot wish to beyond the general view at the coin- munity, and I, therefore, ask every men- ber of the Council to vote in accordance with his own proper judgment in the matter. But I should like to detain the Council for a few minutes in expressing bly personal views of what the proper I am judgment in such a case should be. Trot sure that if we were starting with a clear held I should have proposed putting such a clause into the law; but the clause is there. It certainly has done no harm. I have searched with open eyes and listened with an open mind to hear any shadow of reason put forward for repeal ing it. My eye falls on the remark of Mr. Shewaa

We have not

THE BONGKONG DAILY PRESS, FRIDAY,

to the necessity-first of having to pay higher salaries to all servants employed in the Hotel, who under the provisions

FRAUDULENT TRANSFERS OF

BUSINESSES...

SEPTEMBER 7TH, 1928.

HONGKONG RELIEF COMMITTEE.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL moved the first TO CO-OPERATE WITH THE FLEET.

of the proposed Bill would be in the posi-reading: Bill intituled An Ordinance) tion of receiving cash payments, and, to prevent certain fraudulent transfers secondly, of having to ahtain guarantees of business. He said: This Bill, Sir, is to the integrity of such servants," explained fairly fully in the Objects Well, gentlemen, we are used to seeing and Reasons" and I don't think I aced many s porte statements made in law cover the ground again in exactly the vers letters, but I confess I have sel- some way. I think it may be of some dom seen a document which contained assistace to the understanding of this such an absolutely alistic statement as Bill if I'approach the matter from an that. Are the Chinese. I may ask, a less other point of view. The Bill contem- honest race than any other in the world plates the giving of certain notices. That The servants take cash already and all notice is given by advertisement in the the law requires is that they should take rogette" and in twe Chinese news papers, and the actice is not deem to be complete until the ex- piration of one month from the of these advertisements. publication The transfers as affected by the Bill may be divided into four classes. In the first place, the notices are given at least on month before the actual transfer. In that

little, more ensh.

Then there is another point. I have been dvancing this argument on morale

rounds, but there is the financini argu ment If the 'practive of the signing of chits-is encouraged, your drinks will cost you more or the prices will not be re- dured as they should. It is perfectly olivious that when drinks are signed, for largely and widely, up to the figure of gas by juniors and an to my figure by other people, there must be a fairly con siderable amount of bad debts. Do you suppose, gentlemen, the Hongkong Hotel bears those bad debts? It does not You and I and the people who pay cash, or cash their hits pay for it in higher prices. Even if they are not bad debts the lote is out of this money for an appreciable length of time a month at least-and there is loss of interest on the poney which has to be mindle up. How is it maple up? It is tunde up from, our Both economically and morally, pockets. the system is unsound, and gentlemen, to carry you with me.

Hon. Mr. POLLOCK: I have a right to reply, but I would ask your Excellency to allow the Hon. Mr. Holyoak to reply instead.

Mr. G. T

YESTERDAY'S MEETING,

The second meeting of the Japanese Earthquake Disaster Hongkong Relief Committee was held at the Chamber of Commerce last evening. Edkins presided over an attendances, con- sisting of the Hon. Mr. A. G. Stephen, the Hon. Mr. P. H. Holyoak, the Hop.. Mr. A. O. Lang. Mr. T. G. Weall, Mr.. S. L. Watson. Mr. R. Sutherland (repro- senting the Honghang General Chamber of Commerce); the Hon. M. R.. H. Kotewall, the Hon. Mr. "Chau Siu Ki, Mr.. Wong Ping Sun, and Mr. Ho Kwong representing the Tung Wal Hospital Authorities and the Chinese Chamber of Commerce); Messrs T. Nishiyama, Y. Tsutsumi, K. Shim, I Kawaguchi, and S. Okubo (representing the Japanesea community); and Mr. D. K. Blair (Seere-

tary).

It was agreed to co-operate in this, and large purchases by the Committee were authorised,

that 6,000 tons of four had been placed at A message had been reerived from Kobe the disposal of the Relief Authorities by the American Government, and the Com- mitter decided, accordingly to take this fact into consuleration in deviating car goes.of flour to Japan.

case o finbility at al 'attaches to toe! transferee under the Ordinance. In the second class of case the notice is given meine had received a cable from the The ChainMax stated that the Com-

Jess that alle month before not

get. H.M.S. brose ready for despatch transfer." In the third class of case, notice! Comander-in-Chief instructing him to is given after the actual transfer. In

at the earliest possible moment and to both those cases the transferee becomes procure all medical stores available. liable for the obligation of the transferor and that obligation continues at the expiration of one month from the publi- I trust.ention of the notice. If. during that period proceedings are commenced against the transferce to enforce payment of the transferor's liability, the obligation of the transferee remains until those legal proceedings are terminated. In the fourth class of case the notice is not given at all. In that case I take it the obliga- tion of the transferge continues until it is determine in necordance with the Statute of Limitations. There is one point in which the Bill has been unouded! Mr. R. SUTHERLAND said that Mr. and altered from its form as originally Morton, Manager of the Shipping Board, drafted and submitted to the Chambers had directed that space must be placed of Cammerer, and that is in sub-clause at the disposal of the Committee, though of clause 3. The original draft of the this involved cancellation of very big con- Bill made the the conclusive evidence tracts. transferee of the statement contained in against both the transferor and the the notice. That appeared to the Gor- crament to be too drastic and the clause merely provides that the notice should be

|

I was merely trying to point out that the arguments of Mr. Dodwell and Mr. Puliock are very bad indeed and require the support of two solicitors in this Colony to help them out. Substitute Mr. Holyoak for M. Dodwell. who was representing him at the moment, I take leave to subscribe to the senti ments of Mr. Shewan. heard the semblance of real argument, You talk about inconveniener. What is the inconvenience in carrying about a cer tain Bunker of notes or a certain amount of coin in your pocket! We all had to do it in England, and it is much more inedavenient to do it there because the coins are larger. Mr. Pollock painted a terrible picture of a gentleman who was giving a party previbus. t going to a theatre and finds himself a criminal be

se he has wandered from the dining ror to the lounge and desires to drink

HE THE GOVERNOpi Certainly, brandy with his coffee. I suggest to the|

Hon. Mr. Holyoak:"The main point 3f hon., members that there is an alternative course, and that is that he ena take they argument. Sir. was referred to in the first argument I advanced, that this Ond- brandy in his coffee into the lounge with

sance is unjust in the sense that it dis out paying for it. We de exactly the sare in England. don't know of any hotel tinetly penalises ne section of the rom I am entirely in any part of the world, exerpt perhaps it against the est in Hongkong, which would arrept chits in with you that if the chit system as a Hayinent from persons who are not resi- whole could be abolished it would be a int is the uter. I suntess I have siga- good thing for the Colony, but to legis el hits myself-in Eastern hotels hutute for me particular section of fine that was Because, I had forgotten to Iring unity and not for another is dis- my money with me. The argument thrid or may be said eat controvert that inetly unjust. Nothing that has been persons who are prevented from drinking The argument you el, Sig as to the in hotels will drink more than is good for

large profit on drinies, would be equally them in the Chibs is not a sound oue.

true, and is true, of any club in the Mr. Showau ngain says ---

as long as the Colony has existed, and it will not be abolished by any piece of legislation such as this." make men moral either by law or the You cannot buretment of Hongkong Ordiganers, | neither will you make them give up sign. ing ehits. The Chinese shops offer a much larger credit than can be obtaipeil in hotels. It is mainly on the ground that it is a discrimination between the man in the street-and the members of THE VACCINATION ORDINANCE. clubs that, even if I were not a member The ATTORNEY-GENERAL moved the of the Board of Directors, of would pro-second reading of the Bill intituled an teat ngainst this piece of discriminating Ordnance to consolidate and amend the legislation. It does discriminate between law relating to vaccination. the inns who can go into an hotel and can obtain credit if the hotel company will give it to him and the man who was ders into an adjacent club and can sige for drinks to any amount until the ch says his credit is exhausted and enn ni longer be allowed.

4

The CHARMS mentioned that, thanks to assistance by Mr. R. Sutherland, re- frigerating space had been secured on the President Grant for a shipment of frozen neat

thanks to Mr. Morton.

It was decided to send a letter of

biscuits from Messrs, . Y. Sh and tor It was agreed to order 10,000 lbs of! ship them as they were available; also price by the Dairy Farm Company.

The argument that a "person" will Colony: The credit system has existed jaiwa decir evidence. As I say in the 250 cases of margarine offered at cost

leave hotels and go to clubs for drink is all nonsense. The men who frequent the bars af hotels are not the men who belong to the hubs.at all

If that is so the persons who are affected are not the members of chils, and even if the theory was a correct one, which Mr. Showan says he thinks it is not, I think a club may be trusted to see that its members do not habitually imbibe more than is good for ther.' I question, with all respect to the Directors of the Hotel Company, whether the Hotel has quite the same interest in this matter af a club, and I cannot avoid feeling tha the reason why the Hotel is anxious for the repeal of this Ordinanec is because ther think that people will drink more if they can sign chits than if they have to pay enah. Personally I am absolutely vertain it is the case I confess I should Jike to see the chit system abolished alto- gether. I should like to say that I agree with Sir Henry May that the policy is altogether thoroughly bad. As Hon. Menihers are aware I am not a teetotaler, and do not wish to persuade others to I, but I do not hesitate to say that I think the average man drinks a great deal more that he really needs, and he would cer tainly drinks less if he had on each neea- sion when he was standing drinks at the club or bar to produce cash. My own feeling is that I always feel somewhat reluctant to take a drink when I see that the man has to produce the money for if out of his own pocket, but, on the other hand. if I see a person signing for it. it leaves me cold. When, ono, hears the favourite American phrase "May I buy you a drink that puts it at once on

a cold cash basis, which makes one in-

clined to say "No." In the other case where you go into a club, call the !* boy, to take orders and sign a chit, there is no such feeling of modesty,

On a show of hands His Excellencs said "I think the Nocs have it."'.

This being challenged a vote was taken with the following result:.

Objects and Reasons." Sir, this Hill is in the nature of an experiment. It is an havo increased very much in recent years attempt to meet particular people, who and one way express the hope that it will not only check the evil but will lead

to some possible good.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded, and the Bill was read a first time.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded and the motion was agreed to..

The Council went into Committee to consider the Bill clause by clause.

The

With reference to clause 1 of sub section the Hon. Mr. PULLOCK said, the Hon. Mr. A. R. Lows: happen to heian and not on the pupil. It was obvious burden should be placed upon the guard- Director of the Hongkong Hotel,

that some pupils were quite young. His Excellency was understood to say hon, member moved the insertion of that the hon. member would be out of

words to give effect to his, suggestion. order in speaking at that stage.

to me that in some of the schools of the HIS EXCELLENCY: It has just occurred Colony there are pupils over the age of 1, and they are therefore not subject to the control of guardians.

Hon. Mr. POLLOCK: Perhaps the Director of Education can tell us.

The DIRECTOR OF ECATION: There are very few over the age of 21. The enormous majority of pupils are between the ages of 6 and 14, and it seems to me extra- ordinary legislation if they are to be haled before magistrates for failings under this ordinance and, fine: $250 or II.E. THE GOVERNOR: I should like if sentenced to six months' imprisonment.

4

Pay the Mation: Hon. Mr. Lowe, Hon. Mr. Lang. Hon. Mr. Chnu Siu Ki Hon Mr. Katewall, Hon. Mr. Hofyork, and Hon. Mr. Pollock-6 votes,

Ayginal: The Director of Public Works, the Director of Education, the Secretary for Chinese Affairs, the Colonial Tren Burer, the Attorney-General and the Colonial Secretary votes.

The notion was therefore defeated.

.

I may, to take this opportunity to say. I don't think we should pass a law which any suggestions which will remove the not enforced. that if the Hon.. Mr. Hulyoak will make could only be reasonable so long as it is

inconveniences of which the Hotel com- HIB EXCELLENCY: The clause je amend- plains while at the same time, not opened to put the" onus on the guardian. I ing the door too. wide to the extension

was merely thinking that there may be liable for their own crimes. Possibly the Hon. Mr. HOLYOAK: 1 ani quite sure. cases are so rare that it is not worth pir, the Ilatel has no desire to evade the while providing for them. To the law, and it asks for the support of the Director of Education): What is your Council in their attempts nut to do so.

of the chit system I shall be very happy some pupils over the age of 21 who are to discuss the matter with him.

int

experience. I

The CHAIRMAN announced that, in ad- vote of $200,000, he was able to announce dition to the Hongkong Government's that the Directors of the Hongkong and Shanghai Banking Corporation had voted contribution of $20.000 (Applause.) It was decided to appoint the Hon. Mr. A. G. Stephen honorary treasurer of the Fund, subscriptions to which should be addressed to the Hongkong General Chamber of Commerce.

It was decided to send a cable to Admital Leveson at Shanghai offering full co-operation.

It was decided to inform the Shanghai and "Kobe Chambers of Commerce of details of local relief work in order to avoid overlapping,

This concluded the business.

[A BULLETIN.]

.

states:-

A bulletin issued by the Committee: The British Consul-General at Kobe wired for a shipload of frozen beef, Dairy Farm Co. elicited that there is no mutton and poultry: Enquiries of the mutton or poultry available. The Com- pany, offered 50,000 lbs. of beef at 23 cents, a b.- price which represents n. contribution by the Company to the Relief Fund of $4,000. Negotiations through Mr R. Sutherland have secured refrigerated space on the existent Grant, sailing to-morrow.

The Dairy Farm Co. have offered the Committee 350 56-. cases of margaring nt 45 cents per Th., (cost price).

THE APPROPRIATION BILL The COLONIAL SECRETARY: "I beg to report that the Finance Committee have

of a Supplementary Sum of One million, now, approved of the Bill intituled An Ordinance to authorize the Appropriation five hundred and tight thousand five hun dred and ninety-four Dollars and seventy- eight Cents to defray the Charges of the year 1922, I move accordingly that it be "read a third time.

I started life in the East rather later than Mr. Fletcher and I cannot say that I was ever in the unfortunate financial position he referred to, hüt have had narod deal to do with young men in the public service and mercantile community And I have seen many a good man go Hon. Mr. Lowe: Sir, may I, under rule wrong because of the chit system. I think 32, give notice of my intention to lay that even if a man is not spending (or

unon the table a statement of the grounds drinking too much it is extremely unsatis- factory he should be in the habit of run-

of my dissent at the next Council meet- ning up bills without knowing what his HE. THE GOVERNOR: Will you, if pos- position should be. It is important forsible, supply it to the Clerk of Councils him to know more or less how he stands, before the next Council meeting 1 and I think the general extension of credit for anything is bad, and more especially is it bad in the case of drink. The Hon. Mr. Holyoak informs us that the Hongkong Hotel rigidly restricta ita credit in the case of the younger mem-to provide for the incorporation the Bill passed through Committee. hers of firms here, but he does not, I of the Trustees of the War Memorial On Council resuming the Bill was rendtary presiding.

WAR MEMORIAL NURSING HOME.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAY moved the first cuding of a Bill intituled An Ordinances

can only be found in one of two of the second that

The DIRECTOR OF EDUCATION: They The COLOSIAL TREASURER: I beg to biggest schools. "When there are vaccina The motion was agreed to and the Bill tion campaigns the practice is to send passed accordingly and there has never been any trouble. round an intimation to the headmasters, The trouble, if any, may occur in the private vernacular schools where the children are quite small.

The amendment proposed by the Hon. Mr. POLLOCK Was nccepted, and with one.

THE ADJOURNMENT: HIS EXCELLENCY: The Council stands adjourned till this day week at 2.30.

FINANCE COMMITTEE.

or two other slight verbal amendments, A meeting of the Finance Committee. was afterwards beld, the Colonial Secre-

OFIUN, POTE."

A

think, conceive that that does not help Nursing Home. He said: It is a a third time and passed. his argument. If it is interference with formal Bill intended to incorporate the

The Governor recommended the liberty of the subject, to ask a talpen trustees of the proposed War Memorial THE ORDINANCES OF HONGKONG, 20 votes sur te mended the Council to pay cash for his liqueur after dinner Nursing Home in order to enable then The ArronsEY-GENERAL moved the vote Imports and Exports Department, is it not equally interference with the to hold immovable property in perpetual second redding of the Bill intituled an Other Charges, Opium, Packing Ex- liberty of the subject to restrict the cm-succession. The Bill follows the usual Ordinance to authorise the publication of penses. pioyce's credit to 25. And what happens form of the Incorporation Ordinances. an edition of the Ordinances of the The CHAIRMAN: The vote is $12,000 for when the employee has reached the limit: It is not proposed to regulate in any way Colony to be known as "The Ordinances opium pots. The trouble in South China of his erdit. He either goes without the internal affairs of the corporation of Hongkong, 1844-1023" and to repeal has sent up the price very considerably drink or has to pay for it.

If he pays but to leave that to the discretion of the the Statuto Law (New Revised Edition) and this vote is solely on that account. cash for it, why cannot he pay cash all trustees for the time being.There is one Ordinance, 1911,

Approved. along instead of previously running my limitation on the power of the trustees The COLONIAL Figcsierany seconded, and a debt? I have ginnced through the to alter the constitution, inserted with the motion agreed "to. eitors" letters which appear in Hastard the consent of the present trusteen. It in 1917 to find good reasons for, their objection to the Laking of cash. All T enn find in some suggestion that it is diffi- cult to control their servants. We would point out that not only will our clients' revente considerably decrease but their expenses will be much greater owing

that so long as the trustees of the Granville Sharp estate contribute to the Nursing Home the trustees of the Estate hull be trustees of the corporation. I beg, to move the first reading

The COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded, and the Bill was rend a first time.

The Bill was considered clause by clause in Committee and passed through with out amendment,

On Council resuming the third reading of the Bill having been formally, moved and seconded was agreed to, and the Bill passed accordingly."

"(Continued at fout of next column.)

FIRE HOSE.

to vote sum of $3,000 in aid of the roto ThGovernor recommended the Council Fire Brigade, Other Charges, Hoze.

The CHAIRMAN The vote is $12,000 but they have ordered rubber, lined hose, which has a longer life, and exchange is less, nito, than when the estimate was

framed.

"Approved......

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