1921-04-26 — Page 3

THE HONGKONG DAILY PRESS, TUESDAY, APML 201H. 1911,

off anes

HIS EXCELLENCY: This is a civil offence. The Hon. Mr. POLLOCK: It is a criminal

nota

the increased rate of case of the Colonies the self-governing few days and, therefore, our Budget more 83 has been objected merged in the Dominions has been to this year, I hope, again make our budget colonies which are now in most cases than balanced itself. We shall probably that that increased borrow money for their public works and balance probably have a balance the The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: The difoulty at all on the higher to hedule in the case of the loans right side but we shall only achieve that is this: the intention is to bind someone the objection, and subscribers to the loan can ses at once which are exempt from payment of mill in this case as in many others shall be certain public works as securities which by the sale of Crawn lands. Such sales tose to it that the duty is paid; neglect proposed to make the nature of, and naturally the public tray contribution, cannot be held to be an offence. It is dangerous to leave the stead of $3, no that works to which the loans were to be revenue in the ordinary s016 but are door open to evasion. I think criminal ill be ten cents, and nature, which are likely either at once scarcen. It is probable, therefore, that There must be, of course, knowledge,

devoted have been works of a productive really drawing upon our capital a fiability ought to arise on mere neglect. or after a lapse of years to be remune

at the end of this year our balances will Parties. That, sir,rative to such an extent as to provide remain as they are at present and max liability and also a penalty.

The Hon. Mr. POLLOCK: There is civil reduce to fifteen cents adequate sinking fond. But I cannot see resources in the shape of Crown lands. You could only recover the setual duty not only interest on the loan but have parted with some of our capital would be a totally inadequate remedy. even be slightly increased, but we shall The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: Civil liability y-five; the present rate how in this Colony, even if we were 1, therefore, consider the suggestion that on

permitted to do so, any loan which we the Government is adopting a spend nothing in respect of other evasions. It raise could have, a schedule attached to

that particular transaction and would be of a protive nature. We short term loans for paying for perman- The Hon. Mr. POLLOCK: Is there its prospectus of plic works which and that the users for poly be auto ograde be an invitation to anybody to have practically n

the suggested policy of floating the duty. ablie works which ent public works would not be a wise one. penalty? would pay interest and provide for the and the principle of which is to raise sued for the duty, plus the penalty. can he said to pr hice revenue which no Bill, therefore, which is before amortisation of the Ioan, and, therefore, revenue,

you The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: He could: be if a short-term loan were to be by our present position and with the What is it you propose?:

hold to be entirely vindicated raised as required, we should find our amendments, which have been adumbrated

HIS EXCELLENCE (to Mr. Pollock): elves after a certain number of yours, by the Attorney General will prove a when the works had been completed out measure which will indict no sort of of the proceeds of the loan, without any hardship upon the community.

turn coming in to pay interest or to provide for a sinking fund, and the re-reconded that the Bill intituled An Ordin: HIS EXCELLENCY: It has been moved and sult would be that our annual Budget ance to end the Stamp Duty be read a would be loaded with a large amount for second time, puls interest and sinking fund. If I may suppose that in a period of, say, 20 years loan 25,000,000 were to be raised for our public works, or the most unport ant of our expect to raise it at? English funds pro- rate of interest could this Government works, what

experience is that other bodies in the East duce practically & per cent.and our who have raised foans have had to give

o make the dividing line $20,000 5 11 8 0 30 120

$5,000, allowing a certain number of smaller transactions to escape on payment of the lower scale of duty The present limit is $5,000.

Heading . I must apologise for some of these drafts being incomplete, but there was no time to draft and get print ed complete drafts. The effect of the proposed amendment is simply to make the duty on collateral securitis ten cents instead of twenty cents. It is proposed to make sub-bend" a little clearer in the 3rd column cents for every $100 or part thereat of the principal sum secured. That I understand is proposed by the memorandum drawn up by the

Chinese Chamber of Comme, which un- *fortunstels I have yet had an oppor

tucy of reading..

Bending 33. It is proposed to reduce the duty from 80 to 810. I think the Chinese Chamber of Commerce also made a représentation that that duty was too high and would press unfairly on the analler firms.

Heading 35 is to read““ power of attorney or revocation of power of attorney." That appears in the existing Ordinance, too.

Heading 4. In t the sub-hend (1). transfer shares, it is proposed to reduce the duty from fifty cents to twenty ents, that is to twenty cents a hundred, in stead of hits. Sub-head will be omitted altogether as clause is being omitted, in other words, the inte registration goes,

public

and even 73 per cent. We should ind ourselves, when all the money wan expended, faced with the necessity for half of interest at 8 per cent, and also a providlag a million or a million and a large amount for the sinking fund. Thus our Budget would be loaded with rather more than two million dollars a year, and it is our experience that new public works which had never been foreseen would come up as" urgent services, with the result that we should have to find money not provided by the loan to pay for them. So far as I can see, our last state would be worss than the first, and those who would have to face the taxes

the

transform Steired

the words should be before that we tow a possible in order]

About 180,000 to 8700,000."

IENCY declared The ayes have it.

On being put to the vote, His EXCEL

Council go into committed to consider the The ATTORNEY-GENERAL moved that the

it was agreed to.. Hill clause by clause.

DE COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded, and

THE COMMITTEE STAGE: HYPOTHECATION TO & BANKER.

decree or order of any court to sub moved to add the words any other On clause 3 the ATTORNEY-GENERAL

clause 9. This was agreed to.

similar to those suggested by the Attorney. General in the case of clause 41 as in the The Hon. Mr. POLLOCK: Some words

Companies' Ordinance. An

panics' Ordinance the company is always made liable for the default and the mere The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: In the Com-

& criminal penalty on the company; the failure to comply. Mere neglect entails

it that there ought to be a liability, on less they are knowingly a party. I put directors and partners are not liable un-

ed and that there ought to be a penalty somebody to see that a document is stamp- for neglect,

The Hon. Mr. POLLOCK, as an instance of possible hardship, suggested that a banker's customer might fail to pirt the proper stamp on a cheque.

banker did not issue the cheque form in The ATTORNEY-GENERAL replied that

the that case.

he might discuss it with the Attorney- The Hon. Mr. POLLOCK suggested that PAK moved that the words with a penalty should fall on the person know. General and they might find some agreed banker in the second line be deleted asingly or wilfully evading the Ordinance.

On sub-clause 15, Hon. Mr. Lau Car form af language to provide that the otherwise any hypothecation to a person over than a banker would have to be stamped as a mortage within the meaning of section 3 (19).

words ought to stond. other mortgages should escape merely The ATTORNEY GENERAL: I think the

because they are made in that form. In I do not think

the present schedule the limitation, does not occur. The present nection reads

letter or to other instrument

wording would be very dangerous. How are ran going to prove that the man has The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: I think the

fully evading the duty and he says document which everyone knows ought to done it wilfully. Here you have a

was not wilful, I was careless and did be stamped. You charge him with wil

not bother."

." it

It was agreed that clause & should stand of fover.

INSTAMPED DOCUMENTS IN CIVIL

JAS PROCEEDINGS.

it. The original form of the proposal draw attention to the fact that the was to make all mortgages liable to full first sub-section renders an unstamped The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: Yes, this limits a clause the Hon. Mr. POLLOCK said:

unduly hamper a regular part of the proceedings. That is a great departure duty, but it was pointed out that would document wholly inadmissible in civil banker's business, and, therefore, this from the law at home where documents exemption of letters of hypethecation to can be admitted on payment of a penalty. a banker was inserted.

HIS EXCELLENCY: 1 think the intention with in a later clause. If a document or The ATTORNEY-GENERAL That is dealt Hon. Mr. LAU CHU PAR: I do not The Hon. Mr. POLLOCK: It is extra- is to keep the exemption as narrow inftrumentis point machin

he, sự các họ done by special leave. press it.

the party goes to the Collector, and proceedings in court to be held up while ordinarily inconvenient: Are the whole

nor? possibly appeals from him to the Gover

:

does not press it, I think we will keep to HIS EXCELLENCY: If the hon. member the present clause of the Billie

On sub-clause 19, the Hon. Mr. POLLOCK said: You do not say that a marketable security should be a mortgage. All the other sub-heads refer to documenta deal ing with securities.

to put in a sub-head

HIS EXCELLENCY Would it not be better

charge of the case would see that the HIS EXCELLENOTY: I think those in documents are properly stamped. wp set

me rather cumbersome. It does not The Hon. Mr. POLLOCK: It seems to follow the wording of the English Act

Heading 34 In the original draft of the Bill & pure drafting mistake occurred, and it appeared that an ad calorem duty on marine policies was imposed. It was never intended that any ad valorem duties should be imposed. The proposal with regard to marine policies is simply that the existing duties should be doubled ald where the amount does not exceed $1,000 the duty should be twenty cents. and where it exceeds 81,000, fifty cents It omits two more heads which ought to appeur-duplicates of policies, and rein-required to meet such a Budget would surances, to be found on page 25. It is complain very bitterly, of those who not intended to drop those two sub-heads, few years before advocated the Hosting of but owing to haste they did not appear a short loan for public works and had where they should..

get the Government to agree to that. hypothecation." been to effective in their arguments an to

ciple of this Bill, which, as I have said, definition?

Another point arising out of the prints ExtrLLENCY: Is this a narrower is a revenue-producing Bill, is that the Government has latterly been extravagant in its expenditure and we are asking for for if we had kept our Budgets within revenue which we should not be asking proper bounds, do not know what such arguments are based on We have had put forward larger budgets-to ask. for There is another amendment which 1 ordinary than for in other years, because more provision for public works extra- did mention in "introducing the Bill. In the 5th column, opposite

war we kopt that part of whares excention instead of difto.possible to send to His Majesty's Govern

have as much monce as In sub-head & it is proposed to adopt meat for the prosecution of the war. It the scafe which I understand, has been is natural that after four years of proposed by the Stockbrokers Associa policy of that nature many public werke tion-with one alteration. The scale of a more or less urgent nature have been proposed there is this: Up to $1,000 at an abeyance and it is necessary that we the rate of $1, over $1,000 up to 10,000, should proceed with them now.

Hon ench contract note; over 310,000 and members are aware also that the revenue, up to $20,000, 15 over $20,000 and up during one of the later years of the war derived from the opnum monopoly, which to $50,000 $7,50 over $50,000, $10. Kupfood fat that scale may bring in reached a sun of over $8,000,000, fell Inst; The ATTORNEY-GESERAL: That might be at all. I thing if I had an opportunity year to, 1 think, under $5,000,000, and I done if it would be more convenient. It of conferring with the Attorney-General the amount to 81, instead of 8. g

under $4,000,000. I cannot tell whether mortgages Hending 12. It is proposed to make this is due to people smoking less or to the amount ; instead of 63

the smuggling of cheaper opium into the Heading 46, as I explained in dealing Colony, but I suspect that the latter is with clause 29, will be omitted altoge-Probably the reason for the fall in our revenue. But that fall is in pursuance of the policy adopted by this, Government for the reduction in the use of opium to the legitimate limits of the population, loss and, wo have to raise revenue for Wa havo, to raise revenue to meet that carrying into cffect of absolutely neces aury public works. It has been contended On clause 4, Hon. Mr. Lau CHU PAK that part of these works for example, said: Regulations (e) and (1) seem un. Par said this section, was taken from the our road-making policy is extravagant neccesary in view of section (7) and English Act in which there were the and innecessary at the present time I section 30 (3), think that view is a mistaken one. The The ATTORNEY-GENERAL; (c) gives power. Majesty He thought some similar read policy that portion of our road to make regulations and gives direction

maka wards with intent to defraud Her policy which has taken the shape of makas to the manner in which any stamp duty H.EL THE OFFICED ADMINISTERING THE ally extending that system to the south reference to regulations in clause 30 it, is ing mads in the hill district, and eventu 15 to be calculated or ascertained. With Governzt: The Attorney-General bas,think future generations will recognise as vision as to calculation of duty is liable aide of the island is a policy, which I intended to make it clear that that pro- I think, dealt very fully with the amendafür bing one. With the great develop to alteration by the Governor in Council, ments which the Government propose to uses which can be made of these roads; it absolutely general in character applying clause 14. Kan d

ment of motor traffic and the enormous move in the Committee stage of the Bill

His EXCELLERCY The first one is and I agree with him that tile repre-population of the higher levels of this particular.

essential that the ever-increasing to the whole Ordinance and the second is On clause 16 the Hoa, Mr. POLLOCK Slight verbal amendment was made to sentations that have been made by the Colony should not remain dependent on one various bodies and people in the Colony effective means of access, which is cut off who are affected by the proposed in absolutely for certain hours every day. GENERA said: Clause 5 is a clause which gutta be an appeal to the Governor

The clause was agreed to." creased in the Stamp Duties have been I do not need to go into details to show deals generally with stamp duty and pro

to said it had been suggested by the On clauses 5 and 7, the ATTORNEY.Chinese Chamber of Commerce that there very useful to the Government in coming what immenso service that particular vides that the duty described in the stand over, in order that, words to to various dealstons on the subject of the road, system is going to be to the grow schedule shall be paid on the instrumentide this might be insert words pro

in-Council from the Collector.net now duties, and I also agree with him in ing population.

It was agreed that the clause should recording our appreciation of the inbours cases of great service already. In the to heading No. 11 in the schedule which Clause 17 was also postponed in order

It has been in several Clause 7 is drafted, chiefly with a view of the Committee; which sat for months, future it will be of vastly greater use is the duty on bank notes. It is not that the Attorney General might draft in drawing up the amcading Ordinance. I know of On the principle of the Bill I would like to which objection can be taken. The stamped. The schedule provides that the of lading attached to drafte, giver d of no other item of expenditure intended that banknotes should be a different form, of words, to protect bills to make one or two romarks at this building of quarters for Government ser bank note duty shall be paid, to the col tags. The Bill, as was pointed out by vant, I consider is a policy which should lector by the banker on & statement made clause 21 relating to agreements of sale the Attorney General, and by myself in be supported with the greatest enthusiasm, by the bank as to the average number of would be omitted, and consequently. The Arrom-GENERAL RIDORnced that the first reading debate of the Council, and if it is considered at the present notes in circulation, and this sub-clause subsequent clauses would require to be is one for raising more revenue, but the tile that the class of house which is being is meant to deal with that case, whore, renumbered. mere fact that the Bill is being brought procted is too expensive it must be romam the duty is not paid on an instrument forward for flus purpom has, I think, bored that these houses will require a very but in some other wa led to certain misapprehensions. One low said for repairs and will stand for

rack Taip 1 of a speciady, the ATTORNEY GENERAL proposed a new is that the Governmental imposing upon as many years more than would houses nature, and it is clear that it is of a draft clause,

EXCHANGE CONTRACTS. A B the present generation of tax-payers built at a lower cost and which would apocial nature

- On clause 23, which now becomes clause greater burdens than they should bear have to be either heavy and need expens and that part of the burden of carrying sive repairs or abed to be entirely rebuilt power; the other a particular powered the clause should sland over to give hon. on the work of the Colony should-fall within probably the limits of the present His ExCELLEROY Clause 4 stands part The Hon. Mr. Layor L would like to The Hon, Mr. PouOK: One is a general The Hon. Mr. FOLLOOK suggested that on those who come after us. It has been generation. That part of our expenditure of the Bil suggested, and it is a very attractive will bring in an income although from PENALTY FOR NEGLENT.

members an opportunity to consider. it. suggest that this question of telegraphic transfers be held up for further discus.

i sub-bead l, it is proposed to reduce think it is likely this year to be well amounts to the same kind of thing se we might arrive at a antisfactory word-

I beg to move the seconil reading. The COLONIAL SECRETARY seconded the motion.

The Hon. Mr. PULLOCK: As I am not opposing this Bill going into Committee, and as I shall have an opportunity there of raising certain points, I do not pro pose to take up the time of the Council In making any remarks.

DEFENCE OF GOVERNMENT POLICY.

18.

be made an excuse for raising a loan.

it was agreed that sub-clause 19 should

At the Hon Mr. POLLOCK's auggestioning. It is a very important point stand over in order that he might conferat, sir, that it has been the law of the The COLONIAL SECRETARY? I may point with the Attorney-General on the subject. Colony since 1801. I think it will make On sub-clause 28 relating to vesting many people more careful. That is what orders, the Attorney-General moved at it is designed for. Under section 13 of it be omitted from the Bill and this was the old Ordinance the Court actually agreed to. was pa

hands it over to the Collector. mariyon pa takes possession of the document and It was agreed that the clause should be held over

will stand over for further amendment His ExcALLENCY: Clause 3 of the Bill if necessary,

On clause 3, the Hong M.; Lay, Chu

words should be inserted such as with intent to evade the Stamp Ordinance. stand over, sirku

The Hon. Mr. POLLOCK: Could that

of the words suggested was passed and stands part of the Bill

Clause 9, sa nmended; by the addition

expenditure of the Colony which is centage is a low one and cannot possibly POLLOCK said: nggoetion at first sight that part of the 4-economical point of view the per chauäe 5, sub-section 5; BoD BIOn: A few minutes before coming into devoted to public works should be de Uur expenditure which has been thought General has already frayed by loan-they hare generally been described na short term loans and in

in some quarters to be expensive is proposed to make am that way the annual Budget would be already millions lower than during the 41. I think there is a relieved of the very large sums which of the We sent think, it is required for this sofax

over, one and a half millious sterling to guilty of a olence aim

have appeared recently for what are nown as public works extraordinary We have had the proposal put forward for some years, and I must say that some years ago, I was attracted by it hati

I came to examine more closely what the effect would be in after years if we adopt "ed that paltoy! The usual practice in the

ttorney this Chamber the manager of one of the that he leading, banks put; certain information to clause into my possession which makes it desir amendment ablo that there should be no duty until

one client alone of this bank we person the matter be further gone into. It has been represented to me that in the event

to-bring the firm's outstation collectio

His Majesty's Government for the pro-eat is rot stamped, but to put in some of this taxation being brought into force soution of the war and when the need provision with regard to his knowingly for sending that money had ceased it obvious that, is

of wilfully authorising or com tyre should reducerer default. If this cond stat

War

LANE,

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are now showing the new styles to English and American

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There are so many Styles and Colour combinations among these Costumes

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STOCKED IN ALL SIZES. Including extra small and extra large.

RLS

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ESTABLISHED 1850.

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BOLE AGENTS FOR DOBBIE MINNESS NAUTICAL SPECIALTI

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MORLEYS UNDERVE INDIA GAUZE, FLEXIN SILK and WOOL"1⁄2¿¡PURE WOO

to, the Colony. It would mean a loss i 2-year to the Color

WE INVITKE IN

expenditure We have dons Lagtape could confer with the Attornay twenty-five of thirty million dollar year our expenditure was 143 millions and General I think he would be willing to our revenge was $200,000 mora-Hon concede that some provision of that sort

Be

members have had guttes during the decodear relat