1918-11-02 — Page 2

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GENERAL MILITARY SERVICE TRIBUNAL THREE MEN ENROLLED

ONE EXEMPTED."

A meeting of the General Military

Mr, GIBBINS, That may have been due undertaking they had in view. I might Mr. BELL-It does pot fall mainly on to some temporary set back, We have say that we also now import from Austra Mr. Maas' department; it affects the information that exports will flow freelylia paint from our own factory, so we whole omics. again. We have now documents covering have another source of supply, absolutely Appeal Council that Mr. Many work It was suggested by the

largo shipments.

British."

might be divided among other members Mr. HOUGH-Do any of the imparts of the staff. As an answer to that I have

The CHAIRMAN-I should like to know

Service Tribunal was held in the Council how you account for this erroneous in from America and Japan go to Wilkin given these particulars.

Chamber yesterday, the Chief Justice (Bir formation forwarded by the Crown son, Heywood & Clarke.

The CHAMAN-In other words, you say Wm. Rees Davies) presiding over a full

Mr. BANHAMNo, none at all. Our's Agents

you are undermanned at present attesdance of members. Four cases were

Mr. BANHAM--I understand that when are til British.. that letter from the Crown Agents I would like to ask. considered, and, as a result, three men put before the Tribunal we were getting intendent of Imports and Exports say

Mr. Horox-There is another question who bas just arrived, has been only six A BELL-Undoubtedly. Mr. Harrison, Can the Super- were enrolled-Mr. W. F. Gibbins, Mr.shipments from London, and that it is

weess in pur London otice. M. M. Mass and Mr. A. H. Green, Mr. has been a falling off. We have cargother they have been growing over a certs previously stated. Supposing the war only in the last two or three months there whether these imports from Japan and The CHAIRIAN-You point out that America have suddenly increased or wheybur staff is practically 12 and not 15 A H..Compton was exempted. A request actually arriving here on Friday next. made by the Commercial Union Assur-Our shipments have not been seriously

tain aumber of years? ance Company that Mr. G. A. Dumbarton restricted

Mr. TRATMAN-The figures do not would it take Mr. Maas to teach a man was to last another Ave years; how long should be allowed to go to Sbangan. "i

back, beyond the present year. the necessity arose, during the period of the time this information came from the in American imports for the "third

The CHAIRMAN-Is it a fact that ac figures as I have show a sudden increase his work and make nim efficient? his temporary exemption, was also dis

Mr. BL-That depends entirely upon cussed, and Mr. Dumbarton was inform-loaded somewhere in the United Kingdom reason why they should have increased so

Crown Agents a Japanese ship was being quarter.

what man ft. was. ed that he might apply to the Tribunal. with a large amount of painti

The CHARMAN-Is there any particular

if he was a man of if he had good ground for so doing, at the expiration of his exemption.

Mr. BANHAM--I think that is true. dom fell off!

much while these from the United King There have been ways and means of getting this done and British firms have

MR. A H. COMPTON.»

Such

would probably take him a couple of no experience of our business at all it years. if he was a man who had already

increased as the United Kingdon lost-But we are already short-staffed.

Mr. TRATAN-The American imports had considerable experience of our busi The first case considered was that of suffered. The paint is possibly taken to the market. "They Were given an opporan who is really valuable to us already ness it might take three or four months, Any tunity and they took it.

Mr. AH. Compton, of Messrs David Japan and recxported, here. Previously Sassoon & Company.

in this market we were the only British The CHAIRMAN (addressing Mr. Curm elling paints. We bad a very large ton-At the request of yourself and four share of the business. Now the Ameri firm, made, on special grounds, the eats and Japanese have come along and Tribunal recently held a preliminary have got in to a great extent. as they meeting and quite informally considered | usually do when all the pioneer, work has your case. Mr. Shellim attended and been done by British firms. It would be made statement. Upon the informa absolutely wrong to allow all the business tion now before the Tribunal, the men- to go to them. We can carry on; am bers are of the same opinion that they certain of that if you let us have then formed that you should be exempt Mr. Gibbins. We have been established and, therefore, you are exempted. Ibere 24 years. My predecessor was may mention that this is the only in Mr. D. Graham and at one time we had stance where the Tribunal has had a preliminary bearing of a case and such a Course was adopted under exceptional circumstances, as Mr. Shellim was leaving the Colony.

MR. W. F: GIBBINS. * The next case was that of Mr. W. F.

and Clarke. Mr. Banham was present

a. second assistant here.

The CHAIRMAN-Out of this total im- portation of paint how much was import ed by your

d by your fly have not the figures.

The CHAIRMANA suberantial amount? M. BANHAM-A fair amount. We are the only British firm trading under our own name

private, and subsequently, Mr. Gibbins him. I put it to the Tribunal very, very The Tribunal considered the case inaccupies a post from which we cannot take being recalled, the Chairman announced strongly, Sir, and with a full sense of that the decision was that he should be my responsibility, that if Mr. Mans is enrolled.

enrolled it will undoubtedly seriously Mr. BANHAM-May I have your perdis is not the wish of the authorities at dislocate our business and as you know. mission, to appeal?

The CHAIRMAN-You have power to Home. appeal.

MR. M. M. MAAS. The next case considered was that of Mr. M. M. Mans, of the Asiatic Petro- leum Company. Mr. W. H. Bell appear ed on behalf of the Company.

Hon. Mr. Laxdala-Could Mr. Man- ning not do Mr. Mans' work!

Mr. BELLI think he could, but who would do Mr. Manning' work?

Hon. Mr. LANDALE I do not know exactly what Mr. Manning's work is, but The CHAIRMAN (to Mr. Maas) Your he is attached to the management. You case was considered by the Tribunal on have three managers-Mr. Watson, your- July 22nd when it was decided that no

self and Mr. Manning

Mr. BELLM. Watson is the manager. exemption should be granted. Your firm Mr. Manning and I may be considered as appealed to the Governor in Council and his chief assistants. Mr. Manning looks placed before it an exhaustive memoran-particularly after the Coast Ports, For dum which, at that time had not been mosa and the Philippines.

Gibbins, of Messrs. Wilkinson, Heywood in the Cod with factory-trained men read by this Tribunal The Governor-in-alter the details of those agencies and

on behalf of the firm. Mr. D. W. Trat man, Superintendent of Imports and Exports, also attended:

The CHAIRMAN (to Mr. Gibbins) Your case came before the Tribunal on July 5th. You were exempted for three months, to make arrangements. You came up again at the meeting on October 7th and the Tribunal, at your request, then granted you month's extensión until the arrival of Mr. Basham who is your General Manager in the Far East. Mr. Banham has now arrived from Australia Messrs. Wilkinson and Grist, instructed by your firm, have addressed a letter to the Tribunal ander date October 2nd Strictly speaking new matter should hardly be considered as you were exempt ed for three months only and the month's extension was granted mainly to permit of Mr. Banham a return. However, the Tribunal has had an opportunity of reading, your further papers, Messrs. Wilkinson and Grist point out that at

the Tribunal that the falling off in the The CATHMAS-1 suppose you put it to last quarter in the importations from the United Kingdom, as compared with the United States, shows how important it is to keep up British trade.

the original hearing the principal hal

Z

Tribunal

Hon, Mr. LANDALE There are few busi- Desses, of course, which have three man- "gers at the same time in Hongkong at present.

Mr. BELL-There are few businesses

He looks

that time, you could come again before assisting Mr. Watson as regards policy Council granted you three months' exemp brings up all matters of policy for dis- tion stating that, at the expiration of cussion with Mr.

Watson.

In addition to this Tribunal. The Governorsia-Council I have the whole of Kwangtung and stated that the exemption was granted Kwangsi to attend to besides ather with the special object that the Asiatic agencies. Mr. Manning has just as much Mr. BANHAM-I think as most decidedly. Petroleum Company should make an work as he can possibly do. We have worked this business for 94 years earnest endeavour to find a substitute. and it means the temporary closing The position, therefore, as I understand down of our branch, if you take Mrit, is this. The Governor-in-Council Gibbins

thought that, in any event, a case för The CHAINMAN-Does it mean that! AT BANHAM Yes, because I could notporary exemption had been made out which have the same type of organisation have many thousand pounds worth of at the expiration of the exemption, that of the ordinary merchant firm. possibly carry

and, further, that the case was one which, as ours. The organisation is different to on both branches. We orders on hand now waiting shipment should again engage the attention of this for the Chinese and they are continually

Hr. ADAMSON-The placing of these con- The usual procedure of the tracts for liquid fuc, etc., to which re- asking what we are going to do about Appeal Council would be to give a deci- ference bas been made, is done at Home delivery, prices, exchange, etc. A mansion on the Tribunal's finding one way or is it not? business. must be here to carry on that part of the the ether. It, therefore, becomes our duty Mr. BELL--We make the contracts here to give full effect not only to the circumundoubtedly, but everything is wired The CHAIRMAN Mr. Gibbins is the only stances which were before the Tribunal Home as regards quantities and price. European in your office.

when it arst investigated the matter, but We may wire London and they give us MY BANHAM We have a youth in to give full effect to all the data which the price and state whether they can give a local man. He is merely a guided the Governor-in-Council in com- the quantity. All details have to be Mr. Gibbins is the onlying to the decision it did. The Tribunal settled here and the actual contract is expert we have out here an ad an opperunity of considering signed beres claimed non-exemption. reason for not granting you total and on policy is to run qur, business exemption was because it was understood only with home-trained men as far as the very fully the memorandum to which I

Mr. BELL-I should just like to point have reterrea. I must say that the that your firm was not allowed by the management is concerned.

The CRAIRMAN What do you do youred us with a very large amount of read that it was a bad organisation because if Asiatic, Petroleum Company has furnish-out that at the Appeal Council reference Home anthorities to export the goods it

was made to our organisation to the affect Belfi manufactured and that, consequently. when the existing stocks in the Far Easting. Our field extends from Siberis tout not propose to go through it all,

Mr. BANHAM--I do a good deal of travel-g watter during the last few days. Mr. Mass died tonight? his depart- ment would be in chaos. I quite agree had been disposed of, your presence here Penang, including Netherlands India and understand one particular reason urged with the comment that our organisation could not be regarded as essential either Indo-China. I was in Java last year and for the retention of Mr. Maas is that he is bad, but I want to emphasis to the in Imperial interests or in the interests was helped very considerably by the is the head of the By-Producte departTribunal that we have been put in this of the Colony.

British Consul there. The Germans and ment whien is a department in itself. position owing to the efforts we have Mr. GIBBINS-1 contested that point at Austrians were doing good business in r. DELL-it is a department in itself already made to send men Home to fight." the time.

Java and arrangements were made to and Mr. Mans is the ugly European we

When the war started we had two Euro- The CHAIRMAN-I believe you did. For divert some of that. To carry out those DAVE in it.

peans from Home in this particular de- a time the export of the goods was pro arrangementa will necessitate another The CHAIRMAN-He has been in sole partment. Owing to changes we had to hibited, as linseed oil, which is necessary visit by me, but if you take Mr. Gibbins charge of that department since 19111

make in order to allow men to Home for the manufacture of paints, etc.. was I cannot go I am principally resident

and fight and to the necessity for seeing required by the authorities. Now a süb

in Shanghai. I spend from nine to ten

carry on with less men. stitute for that article has been discover months of my time there and during the ed and it is pointed out that a resump rest of the year I visit the branches. Lion of exports has been permitted.

The CHAIRMAN How long has Gibbins been in the business 1 Messrs. Wilkinson and Grist then dis

Mr. BANHAM-Fifteen years; cuss the point as to whether the con ball years out East. tinuance of your business is essential" to Imperial interests or is in the essential interests of the Colony and whether your presence here is essential to the carrying on of that busines They say that paints are absolutely necessary and they point out that the manufacture of paint is

Mr. BELLM, Maas has had three regarded in England as one of the essen The CHAIRMAN-Sometimes it is neces months' leave in eight years. There has tial industries for the maintenance and sary for Mr. Gibbins to visit Shanghai. been no question of anyone going on continuation of the war. They go on to

What becomes of the business here then 1

leave, strictly speaking, since the war. say that if your business is closed dow for two or three weeks but it cannot be time and we had another gentlemen there

Mr. BANHAM--The business can be left in 1913 Mr. Mana was away for a short further exemption should be granted to even temporarily, British interests would left for more than a few wooks ab

& time. suffer as the trade would be captured by The C-Have you made any Alien competitors and it would be ex-effort to get a substitute f

to try to look after his work and that gentleman was not a success by any tremely difficult to recapture it. General- Mr., BANHAM-Yes. I bave enquired all means In 1918 Mr. Maas had a short ly, they conclude that your presence in round, and from the branches in Austrs-holiday. It was a time of great political Hongkong is necessary to the business lia. It was quite impossible to get a unrest in South China. There was n and that the industry is of Imperial man. We have only one technical man great deal of fighting around Canton and interest and of essential interest to the down in Australia and I might mention business generally was at a very low ebb. Colony."

that in case of illness or death it would Mr. GIBBINS That is the attitude, my be up to China to provide a temporary it has been, you do not suggest, I think, The CHAIRMAXIn his absence, abort as employers, take up. ht A substitute for the Indian branch or the that a man with expert knowledge has

Australian branch if required.

That taken bis place livet och KRONE

five

alf. BELL--Yes,"

"

where we could The CHAIRMAN-All contracts for the supply of liquid fuel are handled by him

Mr. BELL-Liquid fuel and other things wax, candles, petrol, lubricating oils. etc. and a

it was decided that Mr. Maus' department might be conducted with one European. in conclusion, Mr. Ball gave an illustra tion of how Mr. Maas' knowledge of the of very great value to the Company dur- past history of the department had been. ing the past few weeks.

The CHAINMAN-The turn-over of that business requires expert knowledge.

The CHAIRMAN You suggest that the department is given and it is a large

su. You say the man in chargs of The CHAIRMAN-I have only had a short Mr. BANHAM-Most strongly. Our that department must have experience in experience of the Tribunal but I feel it business is most complicated and without the policy of the firm and so forth,must be most refreshing for so many an expert it would be very hard to sell When Mr. Maas goes on leave who does at any rate the quality of paints we want his work? to sell

employees in the Colony to know what a bigh

opinion their firms have of them. The case was considered in private,

and subsequently, Mr. Maas being re- called the Chairman announced that it was the opinion of the members that no

Thim.

Binoo

Mr. Ba-Might I ask if it is possible to appeal?

The CHAIRMAN You have that power certainly, You can go again to the Governor-in-Council

MR. G. A. DUMBARTON....... The case of Mr. G. A. Dumbarton, of the Commercial Union Assurance Com-

Uctober 4th it was decided to grant you pany, was next considered

The CHAIRMAN (to Mr. Dumbarton) On

six months further exemption. then letter has been addrowed to thes Tribunal by Mr. Trencherd Davis, the manager of the Commercial Union in the Far East The Tributal was of the opin ion that it wa

was desirable to consider this the next meeting and you were asked to be good enough to attend. Mr. Tren- chard Davis neks that if the health of Mr. Arnold, who, I understand, is now in charge of your business in Shanghai and is unfit for military service, breaks down during Mr. Davit absence, that Mr. B-He has left me and we know you be allowed to go to Shanghai to re- place him I would only point out with that, he wished to go and fight

The CHAIRMAN-I be here, now?

The CHAMAR There is a later com- munication from your firm requesting that the Superintendent of Imports and Exports should be asked to give an analysis of the figures, of the importation. of paints and varnishes from the United Kingdom. That application, I ander man for the business I submit that Moffice in Foochow He is the sole › man. stand, was made, and, I think, very pro- perly, having regard to the evidence which was before the Tribunal at the

happened once before when Mr. Graham Mr. Ba The man who took a place had to go to India for a time. Our in 1916 had had three years' experience interests are not localised. They extend in our Indo-China business over a vast territory, it is necessary to have a specially trained Mr. A. D. LANG-Mr. Banham says that

Chard was not a specially trained man

first meeting when a communication was ead from the Crown Agents saying that an embargo was still in force on the ex:

and he carried on before.

Mr. BELL-No, he is in charge of our

there,

The CHARMAN-There was a gentleman Mr. BANHAM-He did not carry on

named Pringle. I think he was in the alone. He carried on with Mr. Graham. Accounting Department and has gone to Mr. Chard was here under Mr. Graham's fight. supervision,

except for probably a month Major MORGAN-If a man

13

an

portation of paints and that exemption or so at a time, died in your The CHAIRMAN-The fact of his having gard to that" that according to your

was made only in cases of extreme

down

the business here Mr. DUMBARTON-Not exactly closing: down. We should have to sacrifice the business to a certain extent.

Brgency and for Government work so branch in Bombay or Australia, and a gone makes no difference does it to the firm's contention it would mean closing that it was impossible for them to supply man had to go from China, would that position of Mr. Mass paints, varnishes and similar commodo necessitate your

to close up, this Mr BELL None whatever. ties. Your firm obtained the return from office f

The CHAIRMAN-Yon wired, I believe, to the Superintendent of Imports and

think so, unless we your Home office to try to get a substitute Exports and it is now before the Tria

possibly get another man, which I

for MP Mans and were unsuccessful.. doubt. It would necessitate a recon

Mr: BELL-Yee, and we received another grand total of 301,000 odd of paint ideration of our interests, t imported from January 1st to September Major MORGAN-I claim non-exemption, wire this morning stating that they could

Mr. LANDALE (to Mr. Banham) 30th of this year, 203,000 came from the How long have you been away! United Kingdom, 105,000 from the United

Mr. BANHAM-Five months States and 38,000 from Japan. They were the importe for the first three quartersried on't

Mr. BI did that because in the

The CHAIRMAN-I thought the great argument was 'that you were the only person in charge here and that if you were taken it would, mean closing down altogether.

not get anyone.

The CHAIRMAN-You give us many

MDUMBARTON-There are only two reasons why the work has increased dur- men left in China, one in Shanghai and Hon. Mr. LANDALE How have you caring the recent years, on here

go to relieve Mr. of the year. As regafils the third quar E BANHAM-Mr. Gibbins has been to previous papers it was simply stated that ter there appears to have been a gun. Shanghai for six weeks. During the the work had increased considerably siderable falling off in the importations other time the young man there has had Now I have given the detailed reasons for from the United Kingdom 44,000 came to carry on se best he could. My trip to that increase: from the United States, 11,000 from Australia was one for health in the first The CHAIEMAN--Does the increase Japan and 14.000 from the United place When I got down there the firm work fall mainly on Mr. Maas' depart Kingdom.

wanted my advice on a very important ment

Arnold in Shanghai there will be no one in charge of the Hongkong office. M. DUMBARTON-Quite right. The CRAIZMAN It would have exactly service. One man would be left in charge the same effect if one went on active. Mr. DUMBARTON--If he was sick, there would be, no one at all