1886-09-02 — Page 2

MAIL SUPPLEMENT TO THE HONGKONG DAILY PRESS.

COMMITTEES.

L

HONGKONG, THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 2ND, 1886.

will ask tiro questions and inove a resolution.lative Council imve as much right to meet misfortune to fall into the bad graces of ono i mitten of the whole Council, ázi tharefore I havo ir Boyut Bugiauer (Col. Walker, B.) on has po son to believe that funds could be obtained here

put

usud for the forculions.

again the colony will be no loser, for they and not, as borstolore, at privato meetings of salaries, which is the only part of the Es. was kept, but Mr. O'Malley used to soud ent disonsd openly in Council, and not, as berototronty or thirty years, and there would have to las many advantages over the one proposed.

sion

Вя

coach. The posed a

C

the assault

aystem.

timates in respect of

of which anything can b

said for privacy. Let us now notion one or sittings of the Public Works Committee Hou. A. P. ABWEN skot:-How two other matters. The Chief Justice thinks taken place sines the Comunittes was formed the question of the Loan was proper one 1883

that

the advantsoon

have

in

buddin And Ordinances,ho panic and wires the Bez valuablakÿeigh hundred linis dirger Committe leazes very little for the

reviso the existing

o examine and report apa the Bills in-suggestion that whan

Council.

trodser

tho

rapart of the

What advantage it i Finance Committee in hebt in the Chair, bore tar bo

ic.a

เปะ

was expected would be derived from submit-man should wies an explanation of the whether and we question very mallar ono to do. Tonen the few novasions for the Chleniel Socretary that there was

Mr. Jackson would not have been ting the Bills in such a body we are not one which baro in tenend the Committee in a public discussion as in a privats ene rable to express his opinions just as forcibly fact that in in arriving at its decision. The Acting even if he had thought is necessity Lo aware, but it is certainly setual practice no benefit has been derived Colonial Secretary remarked that

Lo avoid the record. and the committee has ceased to exist o

generalit The few reporta il

Pre/mittee

in name.

to

states

the

the Council ran somewhat in this form-port itself. If Dr. STEWARD in the able funds of Public Corapanics. Than at the various meetings, from which it appeared was likely to take. In due course that Comboen brought forward to-day, viz.-"That the disensyed there may be discused ovanly in Coad- "The L Cotomittee recommend the foi that his impression is not altogether accurate nursion? What or St.for public a name being noted is the others as absent.

lowing

Villa,"

of

institured

re-

have against their decision and give none for it

This

bin 80

matter

as Chairman of the Finance Cons-

minole bo

tein there be

lis-

aomie vory outspoken re-

Eon. W. H. MARSH, CALC

His EXCELLENCY THE ACTING GOVERNOR,

Hon. SIR GEORGS PHILLIPPo, Chief Justice Hon. F. STEWART, Acting Colonist Sacratary. Hon. E.J. ACKROYD, Acting Attorney General. Hon. A. TINTER, Colonial Transurer, flon. J. M. PRICE, Surveyor-General, H. I. G. THOMSETT, Harbour Master. Hon. P. BYRIE.

Hon. 2. D. Sassoox. Hon. Wore SHING.. Hon. A. P. MAUEWRN. Hon. J. BIxVING.

AINUTES.

The minutos of the last meeting wore rend

confirmed.

meeting of the Law Committes" and he said it during two was all right.

of

THE FINANCE COMMITTEE..

letize Connel to decide the metter.”

The Committeo dacído,"

Fo

Mr. Macere.

Mr. Wong Sting.

Mr. Sassoon.

Me lyrio.

The Tresunter-

Motion curried by 5 to 1.

AGAINST.

The Surveyor Generžl

The Committes then adjoiam sing dre.

toring the overnamert:—

OPEN DISCUSSION IN THE COUNCIL privato incalinga of the unofficial members. [ would never bo suid it the speaker had the the principal agentes intradused be we have

Thest this Canumitto, having heard and cortin munity has on disanasing. That matter was discussion on the Stamp Ordiuanon Insted overal Despatches and the explanations of the Chairman, settled, and I can only describe the miente days, and in the case of the Loan we had als It is possible some similar difficulty ray consciousness that he was liable to be called buem the Hills of Sabos Ordinanca, te Peacts

withdraw the resetation of the 6th instant, and to ariso again, in which case we must look to to account in any way for his words. In Preservation Ordinance, the Spirits Ordinance,

solve that the Mactingn of the Commition be carried circulated at the time us about the worst feeble one or two discussions. Everything that could on-aa hentafore, snell the go ation of simiting the and wear that I think ever emanated from a les ungel was urged, and an « grat' may the unofficial members not to allow then this way it is possible that the characters and the Hoforatory Schools Ordianes, I was

Jof opinion there was nothing in these ordinsuces nahlin to the meetings he con idered at the first public body of men. This minate is as follows: points the minions of the unofitial membra At the meeting of the Legislative Cournoillves to be a second time outdated. The and prospecte of individual members of the which required them to be discussed in the Law meatier of the Legislativo Chanel"

* The Committee, although still thinking that prevailed. With respect to the forritations wa this afternoon the Hon. A. P. MacEwEicial members of the Hongkong Legis service may suffer. If man has had the Committee before being considered In Com

Carried anselmous'y. (3)-Hand a Confdential Report by the Cound the money locally, opcially as there is now rea the situation of the baitoring, and avortthing.

for many reasons it would be preferable to raise [hut every detail giron tous-the size of the guns, not called meetings. The questione are (1) How many sittings together for the purpose of agreeing upon of the Heads of Department who has a seat

Hi EXCELLENor--And thas max conflential, of the Law Committos bare taken place since joint action on any question as have the in the Finance Committee be

He may bo

Hau. P. Brate-Mig I ask to see the records of the Delance Works.

Read alan ileo Diepstel From the War Ofer to the at 41 per cent, thus avoiding all risk of lone on The ACTING ATTORNEY GENERAʊ-Fox, con- the Committer was formed in 1933f" and maubery of the various parties in the Hanse down as a incompoop and have his advance of these four meetings, and who were present Colonial Of Jaled the 13th September, 135, which Exchange, novertheless unanimously ammont to Adential, and it was after the omittes but re

and who was not prosunt?

booz previously alrenlated and perseof by the the proposal of the Seoretary of State that the anivad every passible Information that the doci- 2) How

ublic of Commons, where party meetings of the went stopped without over having the op- the Publio many sittings Werks Commited it has place alice meshers are a recognised institution.-Au portualty of vindicating biz eta te Law Committes, and it I comember rightly we bus of Broodh loading and Marrio-onding gass tu teow, Sir, I Lubietain that if they were of opinion tars can be more thorourly demed tharr if Hon E. D. Sassoor-I was a member of tho

Mambor, giving a detailed donoription the Are Lous should be issued in London, provided thation was come to Thory for I think that mors monts for the Hongkong Forts, and showing the nama 4 per cent. Lear can be issued not below par.' information osu bagiven'in committão and mati the Committee was formed in 1883 ? We get 28.

| BL120 Way, there be such a thing as foot in M. O'Malley's Lime very often, and in believe some four or five sittings of the Low

ri.

vauritism. In the service-and there are few fast to 1994 and 1996 all the Bills brought for Too Committee then adjourn to Thursday, the 22nd for various reasons-reasons have never heard we had reporters hare. Not Best Chen Govarn. Committee were held within a short thao of Mr. MacEwan did not succeed in sarring of favouritism, thengh often unconscious Committee fr

men who can divest themselves altogether wurd in this Council were discussed by the Law instant, at 4pm. for the despatch of regular having stated that the loan should be raised Ineally ment has anything to hide, anything to by ite formation, and with regard to the Public his motion in the Legislative Council on of it-privacy attords much greater faci

Jon. A. P. MACEWEN---Sir, I rise to propose why on earth did they not stick to that P Most nahumed of in what it dess, but there are many Hoa. P. RYRIE-I want to know who were the resolution which stands in my name That dovidedly it would have been great intereat thingsthat cannot be made public-apartmental Works Committee it has held few meet. Friday that all matters of public intarest, lities for its growth and exercise than present, bogauso I was unt

in futuro all matters of public interest, and to investors in Chins and the East generally. I mattres that it is not advisable arcessary to ings and certainly never

provented any

sad mare particularly the voting of public would publicity. Se macb for the question

Hou. F. D. SASSOON-I don't think any record more particularly the voting of public funds, Lopressame the loan would have extended over maze public. Ou that ground the praseat sys. report. If neither committee over mesta funds, should be discussed openly in Council, of

I notices to the Law Committee.

fora, at private meetings of the Finauer Can bpen na diffenty whatører, at 4j por onnt. But it is said in the resolution-" That in future are both utterly useless, anch

less, ach occupying the the Finance Committee. The oficials op

allude to what has taken pluses at the resent anything I may have wild this ocenior subrly the voting of public fame, be disonsand. uymittee." It will ha nasssary 1 shoutI bristly id raising the loss locally. I hopa Sir, all matters of public interest, and more parti. position of a fifth wheel

posed a solid plunlans to Law Committee of the Legislative Council carried with then the complacent Mr. Woxu

mestings of the Finance Comunistes sense will not be considered as antagonistic to openly is Camaeil, and not, as heretofore, at pri must not be confounded with the Commis Surg. All the other uuofficial members

thoro ád overy possibility of this resolution being yourself as Head of the wative or to the Go-tabs wastings of the Finance Committee." It to be considered in private. We ennoot ser The BruTEYOR-GANIZAL-The Pablic put to the vote, this evening, and there are cor-vernment generally. As long as I have, theesunot be said thint publicity does unt exist at Ordinances of Hongtong-body from which

appointed to revise the Laws and voted in favour of publicity. But Mr. MAC why, more especially when wo romeinber chint: Works Commitino, sir, Lu et fra times, and in tain mombers present who have been lately honour to it in this Council ne serices are just present, or that a vots can be satched or purse? efforts, nut withstandin the adverse the Buggestion that the Loan could be more connection with this grostioz it ought perhaps to | ulestad or who were absont from the Colony, at as wech t the disposal of the Govaramont as of theagh the Legislative Council without the at the oude but which diss. rate, have not been fruitless. Thoy drew safely placel Ingally than in London came be mentioned for the isomation of the har, the fine these meetings were bold. Some for the publin. Tum and always have been a firm public having evary opportunity of expressing finguished laclf at the outset by presenting from more than one official an admission in the first instans from the Frans and we geatleast, that the whole of the seators of the weeks age papers were sent round to the Fanuc believer in full und fres discusations on all matters their opinion on the sabiect. The master is ro- aa its fire effort a Hill for the harassment that more publicity is desirable, and an in- from the Committee. But the Chief Justice the Finauer Commutes, emil also that all ques money to be applied to a certain purpose in this darle policy in is colony like this where the report upon. The Commitise thresher eat the Pablic Works Committee are members also of Committee suggesting a vote for a large sum of of public interest, and I think the "keep things forced to the Finangs Committee to inquire act of the Press, 000 of the most ridiculous dication of how this might be arrived measures over passed by a Legislativo body in at even

I carefully read these papers duties of the Government are to a great extant mihjsef, and calls for say sridonos it tay think under the present

aya Mr. JACKSON said some things about tions connected with projets of public works. Colon modern times. The Law Committes of the Chief Justice, for instaner, says he has 41. this Loun in prive which he would not have inveling tha egnanditars of munny, are almost I cut to the conclusion it out a matter of a munisipal patars, is a mistake. What I may magossary. Now when this has bron done in the Legislative Chancil was appointed, not to ways thought there was something das to aid in public. It may be an, but we hold alwavi su rafally Inquired into and thrashel that should be discussed in public. I wrote in this, if you wish things to run smoothly. if you Finanse Committen, and when the sport is laid out gut in Finance Committee that really the accordingly, expressing this opinion. I re wish to do away with the element of discord and before the Legidative Council, there is nothing of Publi

erived very courteous intimation from discontent that have book rampant in the Oolong whatever to provent any cumber who has dissent- for yours best, take the pablis mers into youred from the report of the Finance Commitiga tas, Buchealing the Fable Works Committee together. occasion for disassing the matter iz public, confidence, lot the light of day in apoa renreolves, ask that the report be amended, or to move that Hon. P. Erate-I would be glad to know it would be discussed in the Finanes and you will go far to allay it. With these re-it ba rojected, or, if he wishes to de so, to give in about the Law Committee.

Committoo. I was not sorry I hid dons marks I bag to move the resolution.

length the reasons which induesd him to give HIS EXCELLENCY asked the Clark if ko bed it as my name sppeared first in the list, and Ton. P. BTRIE-Your Excellency, I would the rote he did in the Finaners Committee. I hea mambars, more particularly the leibare much preferred that the resolution which do not think it is right, hasofore, to any mentioning games or a low oily a

The Cher road the arms of those present mombars would see the line of argument. Iwo passed at the Fiusace Committer abould have that publicity does not exist. Matters which are as to the looks back at

that. Mr. Ryrie was present at one meeting, his titles was called, and you will see that I pro-Vinos Committee should sit with open doors." til now. whoppser any ho meriher deems it the reports of the Committee be will find some

we come to the Stimp Ordinance. Can any

tested, on behalf of the Chamber of Commercs My hon. friend opposite has adopted the altar-necessary or advisable, and I think the bon. Mr. measure be conceived

an be fit it of a

Hon. P. RYRIE-I never got any notice.

and of the public, against the meetings of that native; and rather than there shenki be say | Kaswick and the Hoa. Mr. Jonfcaan reava thair Now, it is for the Council as in this respect; nonsinually the report any private natura? But, iu efecte the Cow that. I sat & member of that Committee and the inn I proposed, which has been read, was carried the proposition. I have been twenty years a mom-fications was bracht an They said although The COLONIAL TREASURER-I beg to state committee being held in private, and the real failure of the object we have in view, I second reasons when the important question of the forti- a whole, not for a

a small esumitton, to pro-giva in the very briefest possible form acie

Jonial

| Treasurer, "if we

"if we had J nounce on the principle of the mesures indication for the grounds of the Cam- public we would have barrowed the lesings of ooh meating a small mentorandum as a ring day your Excellency's minnte was re-yours I do not suppose I have some across FinanceCommitter yet they thought they should. ain Clock was good enough to sail on the morning by a majority of five to ons. On the follow.bor of this Conradil, and during these twenty the matter had been fully considered in the brought before it. No individual member mitto's decision, but more frequently

four or of the Council could feel himself in the least simply gives the decision itself. Let it of the Jusa scrupulons of all winder. That was sent to every member, and esived by the members of the Finance Com more than

fira despatcha off on this important question, give their reasons; think there cannot be the least doubt it was

mittee, and in due couras the meeting you the bound or assisted by the opinion of sneh a port on the question

Secretary the habit of defrauding

r

of State with regard to and I bilieve they gave their reasons. There whether the Loan

sent to my hon. friend opposite Hon. P. Byrië), recommanded should be held took place, when the

finances of the Colony that therefore, as I havo said, matters of public inter committee. The Council cansos de helter should be issued fossily or in London the mat whenever they hare

1 used to roniva it, and it used to his on my eellency's was also read and diseassed With The moner of the public is the money of the pab-now discussed in public and before the Ingels.--

another very important minute of your Ex was the slightest renson for keeping private eat and the voting of pablic funds can b than follow the well-established practice of Copsoittee state that though there on the portunity of doing so, and abou win taista as a rensinder the Imperial Parliament with respect to the reasons against that course they nevertheless marka Comment on this is gunceery, aurka are quite correct. I always get a notice

wa had to make

Hon. F. D. SASSOON--My hon. friend's re-reference to the part of that minats in which lie and the whole of us, otticials and quottoia fa, are tive Connoil whenever any member wishes it. procadura on Bills; and in the Imperial unanimously assent to the proposal of the the official case was hopelessly lost in argu- Hon. P. RYCI pavar gut aus.

you allude to the Law Committee and the Com-the servants of the public. We have got to deal This system has worked for many years, I believe. Parliament there is no commistes analogous Secretary of State that the Loan should be bus won in the voline. It will now bet time I erer get a notice of the Law Committeevaning that the work connected with those deal with it openly before the world. That has complaint has been brought against it. Bat The ouly inittoo of Public Works, we hare heard this with money that is not ours, and we have got to and has worker wall and as I have said, no to the Tas Courmittes of the Hongfeng issued in London. It cannot be said that one the itaofficial members of tbs Council to was from Mr. O'Bailey in the Club. Twe oro Committees has not been very important, always been my opinion, and I hold to it. I am

ment Legislative Council. I Mr. MacEwEx had that occasiout the Committee gave their rea

it is said now that there is a desire on the pert asked the Government to state the duties of | sons; they simply state there are reason. take advantage of the procedure which was three of us inst, and we said "Suppose we are a My hon. friend the Sarvayar-Goneral nisits that very sorry thai this resolution, if it is carried. Jof the public that thess matters should n years there have been only will do away with the Finauen Committee. I am male moro public. Wall, the present system the Law Committee, they would

pointed out on Friday in order to secure such

five mootings of the Public Works Committee.sorry because at certain poriols of the year it is ensures the pablie all the information it can re- bad gone dilliealty in giving

publicity nd they can fit the disenssions on was as in which the course suggested the disposal of the public funds except when

Now, with great respect to your Exccllouer CULTeicuce to the Guvernment. For instance, quire, and as intely a 1834 these rates word un- anewer. In the Standing Ordurs of the by the Chief Justice might havebeen adopted it is clear enroe special and waighly toison

submit with referencn to your allusion the yon will have to call meetings of the whole nimously passed by this Council. I hire mot Conseil it is provided that there shall be with great advantage. The Acting Colonialunders primer mara desirable. Augue 30 the Flanges Committee laid on the tabbs

The following are extracts from the minutes Board Committees for a bank or public Company Council during the rooms should any domsuds heard any safficient resou Rivoa why we should a Law Committee, but not a word is said Secretary, a

that there can be no malry between the work. For money arise. I will certainty back up my change the system, and therefore beg, sir, to Lith Joly, 159. ing of a bank. or public company and the Gov. hon. friend in what he said with regard to the more the following amenduent-That as it is se to the duties of the Committee, and in mittes, might have explained, in woring the

Mr. MacEwen address the Coramittee and pesta ermeat of a Cokmy such as this. I really do Finance Committee and board Committon of a the orders relating to the progress of Bills adoption of the repo

an

on bell of the Chamber of Commerce and tue pablic not see any nec in ny arguing the mutter, be bank. The functions of a

now competent for any member of Connoi, whou there is no nection made of their reference such a peculiar manter, and might thus have

report, it was framed in HONGKONG LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ally punes the maetings of this Committee

why

Finance Committee a motion ta rafer s måtter to the Finance Com- being 1:91 private.

cause I think it must be patent to every one are in no way the same as those of a mittes is made to mora that it be disenssed in to such a body. It is, of course, open to the saved his Committee from a great deal of

After Conacil

to réfar

any particular Bill to apparently wel! merited ridicule. En future, vise Conncil was held on the 37th Angast.

A special meeting of the Hongkong Legislar sum lacusion Mr. Mugwan proposue, and With reference to your Escaloney's remarks with boned comraíttee of a bank or public company. Connoil, it is nuneessary to interfere or cha respect to Mauritius, I venture to say that what Those who suggested sack on idos must have prasant practice of Council, which has been in select committee, as was for instance no doubt, the suggestion of the Chief Justice There were present:-

That this meeting be adjourned until the guany be applicable to a colony like Mauritias iskanwa nothing about banks or public companios. Axistance for many years, and which was au- with great advantage in the ass of the will be acted upon. But the triumphs of the

tion is in to winther the meetings of the not necessarily applicable to a colony like Tong.I see no reason why disenssions on votes of pab-animously approved by the Council in 1884" Finance Committee eboilà be held with open doors, Religious Ceremonies and Festivals Ordin publicity party are out altoratant of a pro-

fed that the Offices 3d-uivistering the Gevocament Kong. In fact I have been a close observer of lie money should not take place in public. If The COLONIAL TREASURER-I beg to second but a Bauling Law Committee is s ance,

Sovernore and officials, and I have invariably any persuus unice facetious remarks and they are the amendment of the Aoting Attorney-General, request call a special of the Lexis found that instead of endeavouring, to go reported they need not be afraid of having them and I would desire to say in doing so that I cat- apuutive character. The officiala on Friday absurdity.

Durdity.

were able to point to what, from their The Public Works Committee is as 30. daseriptions, might be imagined to be no al-

at the disease Jocally they araciably refer reported, and if they ITO they nendel for the motion of my her. friend on thy lafl to their experiones in other colonias. No, not make them but if they want to tall: Ion. A leas as the Law Committes. The Standing most ideal agetem. When a vote for money

P. MEon) when he brought your Exolleucy alludes to the confidential good solid business they need not bait forward in Finance Committee simply Orders of the Council provide that there i

1 required, hall be such a committee, but say not a session, a minute of the Governor's is pre-

nature of the Secretary of State's despatches. I afraid to have good" solid-business, ráported, wishing that this rubject should be ven 1. it the Legislative Council is in

must ear I cannot see that in a matter of Bunnee Therefore, although I would have preferred tilsted. that no desire should be shown in word as to a fauctions, which as

there can be anything of a confidential nature mother one. I will accept this revolutiomewhat thin mating to stifle the question, fact ars nil. Where the Committee wasited asking for the roto and stating why

In fact I should be polined to go further and pis-aller. Rather than move the other one, in and with a view of bringing the matter to a A motion is shen made that the idea

*required*

say flat in my opinion ninety-nine out of which I am afraid the official membors would not head. As Treasurer of the onloay I have always as, we believe that the minute be referred to the Finance Cota- when

2th July, 1836. hundred departoutal despatches caveived from support me. I send this one. any extraordinars

haon opposed to any shango bing made in the public work was promittee, and upon that motion, it is jected, for which a special vote would he re-any member to move as an amendment that stion, it is open to

The Committes meet this day pariment to the fat. the Colonial Ofies should be published for the Hon. F. D. SA800X-Your Excellency, al present practice with regard to the Financa lowing Minoto by Hi Esecilenes theer Adminis-general public and that this might be doauwith though I admit discussions can be orrisd Committee. It seems to me our unofficial friends quired, the Committee should

report upon the

considered in open

but disclosing any very groat noprets, Your Excel on perhaps more freely and in a some might will accept the compromise which is put the schame. It was never intended that it Council. If this is not done the matter

W. H. MARSI.

lency says I must have been under the impression what loss formal manner at the meetings before them, or rather the campromise of which should in

Before bringing befors the Executive Council the at the I time made the resolution that the funo of the Finanes Committee and without the pro- they are reminded-for it is an existing arrange over the Public Works Department in its or is reported upon by that body.

Eny way exercise a supervision goes before the Finance Committee, and When

resolution proposed yesterday by the Finance Contions of the Finance Committee were mora im area of reporters than would be the case should mont and not anything new in the wordment mittee, which evolution involves the soriota qnok, dinary routine work or in reference to the report is presented it i

portant than they really are. Well, I am free these gentlemon be admitted in fatare, still. of my hon. friend opposite. It is poenible His EXCELLENCY-Hon. Members of the Lin whether the practice af at jours past it to any project for which a vote bad already members to raise

What Lexislativo Council, when I closed this session e now and only nhangad, I wish that question 3

to confess I in common will the public geurally kir, holding as I do the right of the community for any member who wishes the disenasion to considered at a fat meeding of ste Pin certainly did consider these meetings of the Fix to know what takes place, as well as the right of should not take place in Finance Committer been taken. When the Council has once more can be requined? ask the on the 21st May lust I sunnanded to you that it

Committee, nel no afraid that this revolution in lar kace Committee ware of the greatestimpornnoo, the press to oriticise the views of the members bub in Canneil when the Colonial BeTA- would be probable I should bare to call a special! voted funds the castrol of the expenditure They did not state that this system, put meoticg of Conncil about the middle of Septam-

from uspauseing the views of the majority of the Every matter of public interest which involves of the Finance Committee. I strongly recom- tary proposes that be matter bo referred passes to the Executive,

Member. Iregnest the Financ Commilton there- the expenditure of money has invariably been mend that in future the Press the Legis forward as so porfent, is hot a thing of her for the purpose of considering the estimates lative Council ha no further say in the

Fore to pase again on Tuosdiy sext, the 20th instant,

repressated. to the Finanon Committee, to move na a I find myself, however, compelled

at pin, when I trust that all the Blombare wisettled at these meetings, I am aware that This stop. I am sure, will give great satisfaction amendment that the matter be discussed in open matter, except that of course any namesterday, and was called into existence as for next year.

And i ovnical to attour, and will consider the probably the argument of the Government will to the community. slight instalmont of the radical reform to summon a special meeting at an carlier period.

Connell, and I do not suppose that in say esse ze always at

proposition made by the longerable A. P. Mac Twen be that before anything is actually passed it has which has been asked for. What was the and for a totally different purpess. Since the

The AgriNG ATTORNET-GENERAL-The prol da amendment would be opposed. It is per theag's the Government in sot necessarily former practice & soto was required, and fless of the last session I have receiver insteae: Somerent Reign-ligaroos, laik July, Jus, against that I wimid-way- thot-is-his-ben the win bo nothing less, that the abolition ofure, Commitor without a courring tauy bon, nore of any Dolor that niny ho radu in lion therant. to be confirmed by the Legislativo Conncil. As sent resolation, it carried in its prosent chapo. isos imfortunate that two matters of very exosp 16th 1896-against-that the tional we more refurrul for the Finnis bound to answer them. But when pabliche Governor' minute, if there was any the Frouch Mail Staame Ordinance and also instant, se read and coptimal. bo cut mit projected, they must necessarily minute, was sent direct to the Finance Conte Pass similar Ordinance de respset off) fuil the following Theq alates in connection sum of moneg was voted to spend that money if has box any sufficient reason given for that: It bor to taken this course. And I must remind my

submitted to the Finance Committes he-mitsee. The first and last the public arer the

with the best formalion in this Colony of the Finance cesary there and then: and up in putting has not been asserted that Information has oficial frianda that Government officers after fare a vote ean, bo recommended, and as the heard

now line of German mail atomers. Cite of it was when the Colonial The French Mail Steamers Ordinance is oulyj

the question to the Presidout of the Finance ever been withheld, or discussion interfered will, all-posed to ansplain though they ho, as Mr. Finance Committee is none too large for the Secretary moved that "the following retes, passed for a year, ut I have no authority to ce

C. O. Dispatch, No. 5, of 8th January, 1876, Committee Supposing a vote carried against, or that the official majority has ever been used to Wan Ewen has saidro pretty much like other purpose of pronouncing on the utility or

Gavernor'a Despath. No, it, of let August 1879 you in the Courel and the mousy strendy spout, cilenes er in any way to coerca the unofficial people when they find an easy way of doing new it without spoil instractions These in

G.. Isith, No. 5, of 8th October, 19 --that | Canmitree, rezsive legislative sanetion.

Reid and extrack from Love & Beth ar 19th who would be responsibly Berephethe minority. At the last disctivation in the Finance things they will go on in that way: it others the Bill in the last Susion, and us the Ordin-Dazsite, No. of De May, 1977. Committee to do. L

If that is not unconstitutional I.de not know he bore testimony to the usefulness of the Fin the trouble themselves of suggesting the cours do. Li in Chy case is tot'areasons for asking for the money, and no empelled to summon this meeting in order to the four Administering the Goverment: be deemed desirable that p

Apartfonlar

report of the Prance Committee giving the rand these two Ordinances for the bra time. I

sally, in the event of vote having.baen passoalhad invariably obtained every information he bone-bas fond-some onsy way of coudneting his project should be investigated by a smaller grounds on which they voted the money regret very much that I ata sot athis ta pront by I thing but the Honorable Member who use by the Financa Committes on the rabjostroferred could desire, that discussion and argument had business which is an annoyance to you, and you committee sould obtinasly be mors ex- The winle thing bad bean settled in private, this opportunity to ley tise estirantes before the the motion in France Com altlee on the 18thiasut, on this evening, $20,000 or $30,000 having he complained of was thia-that after cary expect hire to desist. Well, the Finance Com- to the other day, and the vote going against been as fres.au prasible, and the only thing won't take the troablo to tell him you can hardly pedient to refer it 20 a special committee se- and all the Council had to do was to record Goaucil, but they have taken intre time than I

that its outings shoull ho hell with open doors, been strendy spent, which ruightonsily be usefull disenssion in the Finance Committee mittee has been found a convenient that it leted an account of the members' special the vote. The reformed spatem, for which expected in preparation, but I think they will

mistaken the object of the Finance Commiste. kno-sleuga of the subject

2-The object of the Fiennes Committee, aloo wouldyonconsider yourself personally responsible? the members were not disposed to discuss the world not have occurred to the Govarnimant to to an the official members look so much credit on since nur last raceting I have invited to this brancy stout the middle of next month: invertebrate body

of the Con.mittees of Law and of Public Works, is a Well, a fall discussion took place when the ab matter in Connoil, or state their opinion.. Not tako say steps to interfere with the ordinary fika tho nding Friday, is certainly an improvement on this, Board three now members, two of whom are to

atated in the opening Beech of Sir Gorge Bowen, on Rent members were present, and I am bound to that they had any objection to their opinions procedure is respect of these voies, bal is s Pabiliz Works Committee, the members but it does not go far enough. A bald place two aucial members who are abamt, und

8th February, 1954 to osamine, in the first in- of which are appointed

auner, the detaile of overy proposed vote and mas say the result was pretty much is me as being published, but it was more out of a wish portaps a pity it did not occur to the unofficial 00 the begin- minute au ac equally bald ning of the acosion as a matter of four give the public that insight into the opinions 1 report do not

agre. It is with the view of reving much valabin before. My boa friend Mr. Keswick before he not to take up the time of the Conncil, at the membare to take another course and that these fine inCell at those Committees were appoiniol left the Colony stated fully he was in faveur of only recommendation or amendment he would matters wors discussed in a way which, though and who probably forget next day whicts and views of choir representatives that they

ho, in hrs Colonies. They preface matters being discussed in public, and also votes propose or suggest was thad B should be leit to eminently satisfactory to those admittat be the Releases fussionstumt Bourel Burces for large sums of money, but he also stated that one or two members to more that the matter, in- discussion, may have been unsatisfactory to those tor Hanks and Faatio Companies, and are, as far he would be sorry to see the Finance Committo stead of being referred to the Committee, should who were not present and did not know what nuzitics, from which Colony the practice was first wholly done away with. Now, sic, to pin be taken in the Legislative Council. I think was going or At the same timo I may irrowed as far back as 1872 by Hongkong, the my argument, we bave heard it stated fra my hon. friend no my right (Hon. P. Ryrie will point out that a great deal of it ww.mod

yatem lus worked admirably for over thirty years,quently in this Colony upon the best legal bar similar testimony that in Finawee Com. Slantial and coull have been discussed in no and mentinga azu pover held with open doors.

authority, namely, the Attorney Generalund the mittes we lový obtained all the information we other way. I am refering to a meeting we had -Lost, hewater, the practice in Mauritias learned Queen's Counsel wo is at present asked for, and have freely and tally discussed the bare when Colonel Walker explained at great differs from the tof Hongrong,nod Flavelong thought. that the Manzit its practice migas be introduced ero absent, that those sacret meetings of the Finance mattera brought before us. Some mention has length the nature of the fortifications. Thut The draft minetes of the Fiuzace Committee are Comittee are naconstitutional and against the been tende of goeroion, or quasi-carion, in conure, meeting was an intellect and treat to every mem- there either airaalated for revision by the diferent Charter and Instructions of the Colony, and that tina with the fortifications, batasfar as my memory bor who was present. I myself have seldom on- mombars, or, in important cases, are rovised at a

has never beou atradioted I endeavoured to serves ma, everyone came round to the views exjoyed anything more than listening to that ox- spacial meeting held for this parpone. The minatos and thea wad of the next weeting of Count, and from the legal rembers present at the must-pressed by Mr. Keswick and Mr. Jackson. There planation by a gentleman who understand his on the notion for their cdoption, Buy Member may ing of the Finance Committee some expression of was certainly no coercion, and the committee subect so thoroughly and explained it with such discuss them, and they may be rejected; se I karsinios, but beyond vagne generalities I could vue manimous. I think Mr. Jackson: at one of Iuidity as Colonel Walker lid. But bad re- get nothing definite out of them. I hara born the meetings of the Chamber of Commeroe, bore porters beon presont Colonel Walker's mouth 4-Ona vory important reason why the Finance told upon what may be considered goed official similar testimony. Therefore I ask, what are would have been shut and we should not have Compute wily preluded that the cuthority that one reuon why these meetings the reasons on which we are asked to make a heard anything of that information which we

in caRKO

urs bold in private and matters of interest ure change in par mode of conducting business? I listened to for two or three Eours. Then an. from communicating information of a confidential mature, de a raio, coss of the Rouretary of State's not discussed in public is, that if they were, it am sure if my hou, friend opposila (Ho A. Pather thing. Great stress has been laid on the Despatches containing instructions än be coramani-world give certain, members of this Council an MacEwan bad waited some time he would have practice of the House of Commons. Now, jo ented, when eary, confidentially to the Finemo opportunity of talking to the press. Now, I state, nbtained a better insight into the working of the the seras what meagre discussions which take Cotton though the Garar cannot publish I stated in Finance Courmittee, that if that is binance Committee, and that he would not have place in the House of Commons on the estimates thes by laying than beforaming when repot the only peg the Government has to hang itaargu brenght forward his motion. Now with people are referred to by classes, as the Customs tees ays present (Sea Col. Rule 133).

5.Sir John Pape Honesty informed the Comel rant on, it is a ratten one and ought to be given rail to publicity, I think every possible publi- Offers, or Excisemon, or porkups Postmasters, in 1878 that as was omneidering whether or not he up. I don' beliers the Soorotary of State would city is given. Nothing is referred to the and if these are spoken of as villains the lash fulls should allow repertors to be present st future mint permit such an idea to prevail. I have also been Finucce Committee except what goes throngbvery Rebtly on the individual; he has always ings of the Finase Committee, but the Seerotary of State, when he referrel the question, thought it views of the press and of two or three agitators minute of the Gosurace road irst stating the the general rule; but here the class consists per- told that in this I am merely advocating the the Legislative Council. There is generally a the pleasure of thinking he is an erception to diable that the peneties of the Finance in this Clony. Well now, with regard to the wants, and there is a motion that it be referred haps of one man, and if I were to take up the time mittaa shond la altered.

Itrustlourident to Honorable Mombers that, agitators. I would say this, if the Gorerument is to the Finance Committee; and on that motion of the Council I could refer to many cases where if Sir John Pops Humessy did not feel justified in under the impression that the discontent and it is open to any hon suber to more that in remarks hare bass made with regard to indivi aking the innovation which he resemmended, with dissatisfaction which have provullad for many years ad of it being so referred, it should be dis duals which would have been most oral to those ort provingly asking for the sanction of the Secre past is confined to two or three pogone, at discussed pablicly. This has not been dono, and it individuals Lind they been published next morn tary of State, I cannot take alioa o testes did plays great want of information, baquse it has has been referred to the Finance Committee, ing in the newspapers. It may be very well sibility, especially when the metamore of the recommessos of Sir John Fope been universal for many years past. I can wall and there the matter is thoronghly discussed to wy a thousand men are not worth the salary Hogany There is, therefore, no advantage to be understand that is a colour like this, where overy and thrashed out. Our meatinga sra partainly they are drawing, but it is a different thing to ruined by conveninga social settar of the Terad little matter of expenditure has to be referred more free, and the matters are discussed more say that one man, whose sole offanns is that t tire Council, since the resolution, if passed, mast be to the Colonial Utos for confirmation, there completely than if we met in public. There are is a harmless incompoop, is not worth his sal referred home. The action can be made. i always would be a sertain amount of dissatisfac-some hon. menbors who are good fusaciers, but are. Then my hon. friend has wade a great Hoxsarable Membere still think it duisbio, at the next meeting of Council, which must be held in the tien, but that it bas heen so goueral prores there have some difficulty in stating in publia their api, deal of the vote about the Loan but that simply catly part of September, if not before, to discuss the is a screw loose somewhere, and there is an in-ione; and there are personal questions very often amounted to this we did think, and do think. aatilantes; and, if ourried, I will forward it to the Busnes at work somewhere which has throws sashich are mentioned and diamussed in Finance that a local Town would be preferable, but the Swgrotory of tube at once. ---

if the pabliraru to he admitted to mantinga orion on the Government and stopped progress Committee which we would not be able to discuss points is discussion had been reduced to se the Flosure Cuamitlyn, the raisons d'Aro of such in the colony. Now, sir, I would veature on two in public. Again, the Gorernment is able to lay small a margin that they were no longer worth Cameltoes rooms to me to disappear, and all votes Hustrations of whatis regarded satisfactory, beface the Finance Committee for more informa tighting for. And with regard to that disous tor musy might as well be discussed in Consall, I would take the subject of the votes for the tion than it would be if the disenssion vere sion I must say there was a good deal that avald without the preliminary axation of details, fortifications. On the first vote of £35,000, I public which has hithrcio prayed to convenient both in this baligro there was a certain amount of disqusion..

not conveniently have been made public. und in obar Crown Colonion,

Hod. P. BYKIE-Trias bo ondor. On financial would only refer to one other matter, and that is

bead trader the supression, as the time, that the formation furnished to it at all, and I hare it on

3.--I cannot help thinking that the Honoreible but upon the Colonial Office asking for the fur-questions no information should be withheld of the dismission on the Stamp Opinaner. Consi Member who proposed this resolution past have ther large sum of 260,000 the public, had no in- any kind.

derable classes of this commurity are in the functions of the Finance Committos were more in the authority of my hon. friend the senior unjust bean stated, that a diapatah" on financial do

The ACTING ATTORNEY-GENERAL-IS has habit of evading the Stamp Ordinator, I not refer to people of "soy particular portint and more conclusive than they really ap

I as Honourable Numbers test it iar Fipanco Committes he voted for Lautler curtain be confidential ressom gives for moving aende the Stamp Ordinance which runs more pial member, that when the vote was taken in matters may not be confidentiat, but there may nationality, but there is a disposition ta the Gevirnment in all was connected with the editione What those conditions were he bassote. It vauact be said therefore, that it is or leas through the less epulos of gipeaditure of public moneys, aarl tost I shall at all never told me, but I do know this, that he was to a simply a question of Agaros, and that it is not all classe Now, when we discussed the these bo peady le catertals any suggestions that certain extent pressed into voting Hs was aquart-coidential. Bat daancial matters are not the Stamp Ordinance we had to make some very plain are of andoubted advantage, and that I feel thated to let the Secretary of State sue that the Chauni only gestiona; very often they involve the son and outspoken remarks about these people who an authorized in acoeling to.

Giovamunes. Hodes, Hongkong, 17th July, 1818. wore ananimous on the point. Well I am brand dust of a piblio offer. Now, in proof of the dis-ars in the babit of defrauding the Government Attorney General proposes, and Mr. Madres second, I would take another sabjant, thist of the Loan. the long discussions on the Btamp Ordinance, the and I do not hesitate to say a great deal of what Comidable discussion ensue, worn the Acting to way that looks to me very much like operoica. sassion that have taken place. I say refer to whenever they bare the opportunity of doing so. That is a very important matter, which the con- Lasan Ordinape), and, the Fortifications. The waz mið en that occasion would necessarily have.

ber

otherwise

19

to ask

1L

Again an

in

discussion

on

a

to

THE ACTING GOVERNOR'S SPEECH,

instruc

Be of aby project it will be sent that Deen approved by the kistruoliuns urcired too late for me to Introduca -petober, 1875, and attrs from Secret iry of state's Governor wual is beli personally responsible." Committee the Hon. W. Kerrick was here, and wish trouble to be taken they met at last tako was Camo Work left for the Public There was no minute read stating the Govorace oxpires on the 1st September, I have been Boad also the following Miasto by His Excellency what is. I would put it to your Excellenos panoží. | suce Committes. He was able to shafe that be which they wish to be adopted. If year neigh-

sban

and which can only be oh

committes it is they have been appointed to obr. taking note of a speaker's words a cordial welcome to our new colleagues, who T

tained

PAPERY.

The following papers were laid on the table-

Bowen when the Hogistrar General was nos lling I bave followed the example sub by Sir Gorge his post in appointing die Harbor Mastor. I am to hav and never know who their supposed col- tal

sara all the mobors will join with wo in offering i leagues are. If my useful work is expected as they came frosk from bis lipa Whintaver have not the slightest dorbt will be at the from such a body as the latter, the first atap

may be anid

the contrary,

thereal business greatest assistance to us. (Heur, dear). must be to define its functions, so that the is done in Finance Committee, and the dis members themninga

know what these are cussion which may follow afterwards in The form of

Liv Committee Council be little better than parrot work, Correspondence relating to the late Mr. F. B. and a Public Works Committes should, ac- the membera baving already ssid all that Johnson, a member of the Council (which has cording to the Standing Orders, be gone they can have to say in Committee.

already been published), the report of the Com- through this afternoon.

officials recognise the desirabiliteision appointed to consider the question of The resolution of which Mr. MacEwes of publicity to a certain extent.

insafligioat accouimodation in Vistoria aol; has given notice is a matter of more praatiother hand, the advocates of publicity cannot Steners; & despatch respecting the withdrawal On the respondence respecting the Gorman Mail. cal importance than kis

questions. Is is,

is, deny that there

bere mis be oscasions on of soclesiastical grauta in Hongkong; and a des indeed, of saprane importance, sal the com- which it is Davential

the deliberationn patch respecting Sir George Bouso's departure munity is indebted to the hon. gentleman for should be carried on

The from the colony. having formally brought the matter forward point in dispute has narrowed itself down le

on in private.

Те

FINANCE.

at the earliest opportunity. The resolution this: that whereas the officials say publicity The minutes of soveral meetings of the Fin- "That in future all matters of public should be looked upon as the exception and ace Committes were laid on the table, and the interest, and more

Hop. A. F. MacEwen, speaking with refor once to a vote of £50 $379.001, or the second oily of an honorarium, sanctioned by the Se erotary of State, to Mr. Hillior. Acting Chinese

Public Funds, be discusses the roting of should be spesially asked for when it is. de. SRCA TANOmmended ware vord. '

openly in Chun-aired, the advocates of publicity

Bay

cil, and not, as beretofore, at private meet-ought to be the exception, and ought to be The vote allowed only when there are good grounds

inga

of the Finance Committed."

On

W. I.

3as my komludge extends, never held in public. În

sve done in Menritius..

this raslution will be, we venture to pre- for supposing that publicity would be de Sacretary at the British Legution, for superin diet, unanimously in

in the affressive. The trimental to the public interests, as night tending Chinese studies of Cists in Poling. iden of allowing eleven gentleman, no matter happen is such a cast as that of the fortifi- suid-Sir, I think the Hon. the Colouin Seorg- who they funds it may be in vote away the publications. For such cases is thia and a few tary will react I made a few texturks when bear serious czapiration for a moment. Finance Committea might very wall be either 2: this mesting or on some futurs Jasion in secret conclave is one that will not others that may present themselves the this vote was proposed in Finance Committee on the subject of etudeat interpreters, and I wish The tendency of late has been to make the maintained. In the Estimates, for instance, to bring forward a resolution with deforenes to Finance Committee everything and the Lo the great bulk of the items, we maintain, are that subject. gistative Council nothing more than a court proper subjaste for public discussion, but AIA EXOSLLENCY-Well, any time you tike, of record, eo far as the public erpenditure is the question of alterations in salaries is one but for a resolution you must give notice. concerned. If it be decided that all ques that posibly might be best dealt with in

Hon. A. P. MACEwEN-I beg to give notice tions of expenditure are to be discussed in private. Wo are got prepared to admit at that at the next meeting of the Cesncil I will public, as we think it must be the Finance once that it is sp. The matter is not ons in move a resolution. Committee may as well be left to go the way which the feelings of the "barmless pin 83 LAW COMMITTER ANY THE PUBLIC WORKS. of the other two standing Committees. The compoops" we quote from the Colonial

COMMITTEE. proper course would be, when any sum is Treasurer-who draw their salary from the Hoa A, P. MacEwen asked the following asked for by the Government, for the Coun-public funds should be alone considered. If questions-How many sittings of the Law Com- cil to resolve itself into a Committee of

aan is a harmless vincompoop not worth mittes have taken place since the Committon was supply or of ways and means, ruch Cow-his salasy he ought not to be allowed to formed in 1883 P mittee being as opon and public and as much revalve it.

The ACTING ATTORNEY-GENERAL-LAWAT The Tombars of Cannoil should de faste the Council itself as the Council in remember that they base, as the Hon. P. to that I hars to state as follows-I have been Committee on Bills. The origin of the Finance RIR sya, to deal with money which is mitte together on four cosasiona, which I would informed that Mr. O'Malley called the Law Com- wasexplained by the 7

the Ton.P. Evernot

not their own, but which belongs to the pub-call four formal meetings; hat beides these en & recent occasion. The unofficial subers lic, and they ought not to allow that tey hers were several inferens mestings held. At wished to meet together to consider the es-to be used for the support of insompetente. thess moolings the Clerk of Coundle was timates, in order, presumably, to

to agree upon Bat, looking at the matter even from the poffut not required to attend and did not attend. a joint course of action. The Government of view of the Civil Service, it is open to quee and therefore nominates or records of those fu took objection to this proceeding, and the tion whether outcome of the discussion which ensued was When a cumber of gentlemen meat together tags were hold. Since I have beou Asting At- publicity would not be better. formal meetings have been kept. It is imposi ble now to say how many of these informal meet the appointment of the Finance Committee iu private their discussion are apt to descend trudy-Gonorel Lave not onlied the committen that is, the whole of the otheint element was into mere goalp, the sense of responsibility together. Besides the Ordinacea I introduced imported into what were intended to be the is destroyed, and bings are said which which had passed the Law Revision Committee, the following relation

Committee

of

wlah that the fullest Information ebook be given by

I

<

.