1923-11-21 — Page 10

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COLONY'S | PROBLEMS,

THE CHINA MAIL.

WEDNESDAY, SHOVIMBERSH

EARLER TELEGRAMS.

r's, Service to the China Mad

HÒND ELECTIONS,

assured the Government that he enclosed area clean on sccount of in the various Harbour proposals Referring further to difficulties would be only too glad. He had in could attract the fibur and rice and sewage effluent from the surround was fully realised by the Shipping in connection with development in fact arranged such a scheme with general trade of West Point to the ing densely populated district. Committee.!

West Point, Mr. Fletcher mention- Mr. Johnstone but the Company did now are that if the Chinese hud Those were minor objections-the With regard to the North Pointed that, if the thing was to be done, not go on with it? pa (Continued from page 9.)

these facilities they would be pre-Government had not gons into the scheme, it was considered that properly, it would be necessary to Mr. W. S: Brown submitted that This statement was corroborated by pured to move. Mr. Fletcher said proposal in any detail--but he sug- although there was much to be remove the tramway from the the central point of the trafic at a Chinese Chamber of Commerce he only mentioned this for the in-gested that the objections were over said in its favour personally, Harbour front and so provide free present is the district in which the

LONDON; November 20." report which had only just been formation of the menting: the whelming as compared with the thought a great deal, especially access to godowns: An estimate Wharf and Godown Co., Holt's

in favour of getting quay walls was obtained by the Government Wharf and the Railway are situat- Four hundred and thirty-two received by the Governinout. They Government had no intention of Bunghom Bay scheme.

The Government wanted to make bullt, there was not an urgent for driving a short length of road at ed.

Conservative candidates are already Mr. Fletcher: referred to the great losos sustain landing over the whole work in this

a beginning, if possible, with the need for that frontage. He doubt Western Market in order to join

But there is no in the field and considerable addi- ed on account of excessive handling Dy-

Mr. Fletcher also quoted at length Hunghom Day soheme in order that if within the next 10 or 20 Des Voeux Road Central and Des traffic except passenger traffic.

tions are expected. Mr. Brown; When these charges and gave.atatistics showing flour, Auslaafian Hour and Shanghai wliom ho described as an engineer quantities from China-the port quarter as West Point was likely mated that it would cost $4,500,000¦ vehicular ferries are started there | ¡ion of the Government appears in that a very large tmãs in American from the report of Mr. B. H. Ellis,if cargo came down in large years, so important a business Voeux Road West, and it was esti- flour was being endangered by rea. of great repute, in whom the would be in a position to handle it to be moved because quay walls merely to resume the land. If the would be a large flow of motor the generally pro-Government Daily

of

Administration.

Edkins.

the

Ca

}

Mr. Fletcher: There is no ques- tion of stopping the Star Ferry.

A remarkably sharp condemna

ITALO-SPANISH ENTENTE.

LONDON, November 20. The Chaltman mentioned that The possibility of an Italo the reason why the proposal for a Spanish entente resulting from the yehicular landing stage in connec-visit of their: Spanish Majesties to ion with the Star Ferry did not Rome is causing attention in the eventuate was that the directors British press, as it is likely to have had an idea that the Government en important bearing upon British communications. The as going to take over the Star overseas Ferry.

Italo-Spanish community interest Mr. Fletcher: I do not know in North Africa and the Mediter- where they got that idea from. The ranean has been the theme of Goverment has never had any articles in the Italian and Spanish such intention, CA

press emphasising the dominant

and godowns were developed at scheme actually went forward it lorries crossing the Harbour. It Mail, principally on the ground of North Point Speaking generally, would probably cast a much greater would be very much cheaper and foreign policy. The paper declares son of direct shipment in recent Government had every confidonce. in connection with the railway.

he felt that, if funds were available, sum. If enormous costs were to be quicker if there is a ferry service that Mr. Baldwin grows more years, instead of "vid Hongkong as Mr. Ellie came to Hongkong on formerly. Flour merchants, in behalf of Messrs. Butterfield & An to the question of administrit was a good thing to proceed with plied up to this way it would be between Kowloon point and West maladroit every day, Vote fo coursquence, had suffered severe wine and they dont to Govern- tion, the intention was that blue the building of deep sea quay impossible to make any Harbour Point. Motor lorries will take the

place of the present small boat Vote for quarrelling and a break Government Шевов lonses on their capital. Statistics ment his services, at the Govern- Government should build the walls. However, he was very much scheme profitable.

Mr. Ellis's most whorvos, in order to proservo uni-impressed with the proposals made

Mr. Sutherland thought that if the traffic which crosses between the with France, with whom Marqtig were given showing the wastage went's request. anal expense of excessive handling valuable and interesting report was formity, but there was no intention by Captains Davison and Robinson Government continued with the two points at present. of flour. The moral was that coolie entirely un independent one.

of the Government running a whorl not so much with the proposals Kennedy Town scheme the require Mr. Fletcher: I do not know Curzon had poisoned our relations. The Government also asked Mr. and godown business. It was quito themselves but with the ideas.ments of the West Point district that it would be cheaper and it will Referring to the tariff question, the hire, lighter hire, godown hire and

not be nearer, if this Hunghom Daily Mail says that Mr. Baldwin the method of working were not Ellis to advise upon the Hunghom possible, for example, that Messrs. The recent typhoon had brought would be met.

Mr. Fletcher said that documents scheme goes through. At Kowloon so weak that he does not go hali Bay scheme, and the discussion Butterfield & Swire might come to home the importance of protection 'really economical.

Tuking that as a basis, the with Mr. Ellis on this branch of an arrangement to build under for large vessels. In the past were practically ready fortenderers. Point it is a mile to Yaumati and far enough. It concludes that it Mr. F. A. Cox wished to Impress the Chinese traffic is developing way possibly be necessary for the Government had examined the the subject was quite separate, from Government supervision, It must Harbour schemes had been limited possibilitics of the port. They were the desire of Mours. Butterfield & bo uccording to Government speci- by financial considerations but on the Government that there is no immensely. The Chinese do not electomy to consider whether the West Point, Swire for extension at Holt's cation in order to ensure that it now the Calotty was considering real shelter in Hongkong Harbour want to be landed at Kowloon nation's foreign policy must not be practically three!

steamers in typhoon Point. The principal development placed in safer banda than those of North Point and Hunghom Bay Wharf. In thus connection Mr. was built according to the genel the expenditure of money running for large

The Government would into several million sterling, for weather.

of the district is in the vicinity of Marquis Curzon and Lord Robart The Government asked Sir Maurice Fletcher quoted fran Mr. Ellis's plan.

Mr. Edkins: Would it appeal Jordan Road.

Cecil Fitzmaurice to come out to Hong-reart dated 11.4.23, in which Mr. either.build or have the wharves Hunghom Bay and he thought it kong and in the preliminary discus-Ellis submitted plans, for an addi. built under supervision, but it was possible that sufficient considera- to you, Mr. Fletcher, to put the Mr. Cousland: It seems to me

RUSSIAN CONDITIONS. sions he agreed--and the Governtion to the Hunghom scheme of not proposed by the Government to tion had not been given to the whole of the schemes before Sir we shall need both.

question of more definite protection | Maurice Fitzmaurice so that they ment rather frusted the point--that two deep-draft butha adjucout to undertake a wharf and godown for large vessels, perhaps because could be dealt with in one more

LONDON, November 20, This report, Mr. business. It two firma, care to in the past, it had been a question comprehensive report, and es- • Explaining further the Gover”. the main effort should be to base Holt's Wharf.

The report of the business men's the Government divide the wharf between them, of difficulty in fading the money.pecially with a view to obtaining ment policy with regard to ferrie, mission mentioned on 10th August the godowns and wharves on the Fletcher said,

there would be no reason why they It might be helpful and not involve more shelters for typhoons. Mr. Fletcher said it was the inter-on their visit to Russia expresses railway, because, if China hnd regarded as of great value..

Deepwater Dock should not. Any change-too much delay if the question Mr. Fletcher thought it would be tion to have a very big wharf with the opinion that conditions there peace and developed commercially,

sufficient to the railway would be an immensely Coming now to the question of onts would have to be under some could be put to Sir Maurice Fitz-quite

put these a concourse area and avoid a great have enormously improved. Ex- important factor in the handling the advisability of constructing forms of administration which he maurice that open wharves did not questions before Mr. Duncan on congregation of rieshas waiting to porta are greater than imports, the cargo.

wharves in the position proposed at imagined the Chamber of Coin-seem to be the only thing for Honge his return to the Colony in the take passengers from one wharf to country's finances are on the way to

kong Harbour.' merce could help in devising.

If funds were early spring. Sir Maurice Fitzuauriec advised Hunghon Buy, Mr. Fletcher pro-

Mr. Duncan had another. A passenger would be stability and trade prospects with Asked if the Government had con- available and if the expert advisers been specially chosen for service able to go from one ferry to an Britain are extremely good. The the Hunghom Bay scheme adopt coded to discuss the suggestions ing, to all intents and purposes, Mr. put forward by Capt. Davison and sidered the question of charges for could suggest, idoas which would in the Colony on account of his other without leaving the wharf.huge trade with Germany has been The Government also wanted to lost and the mission is convinced Duncan's scheme which had been Capt. Robinson for a deep water the wharves, and whether the cbviate the necessity of all the big special abilities in these matters..

Mr. Edkins: Personally, I am get the Canton steamer landing that the Russian Government, if it already worked out. Sir Maurice dock west of Kowloon Point. This Government would lease them to steamers going out to shelter in

the highest bidder, Mr. Fletcher typhoon weather, it would be quite in favour of development in places better organized. As to the can be assured of the rapid develop suggested certain alterations in the proposal, he remarked, was not said his personal opinion was that it very valuable in the interests of all three areas, but, if we can have position of the ferry wharf on the ment of industry, would assume all positions of the piers, and so an entirely now, though in its present would be better to give the Ship the Harbour in the future. The something better than any of the Hongkong side the Chinese did.

The idea of inaking provisión inform perhaps it was. A Behere West Point was abandoned for two was in existence for u bridge across ping Companies facilities. On that tendency was for more and more schemes now before us, it is worth not wish to go, further east than its liabilities, except inter-govern the Government relied on the large steamers to come here and while waiting for it a little longer. Jubilee Street; neither was it desirental war debts, and would fix reasons, the main one being that the Harbour, also with godowns

Mr. Fletcher: I quite agree. If able to bring lorries, close to the liquidation dates. gested. Handling difficulties would the same length of construction pierce. It was for them to advise masters must be very great in we can get this wet dock I am big office buildings in the centre of the district was already very con-upon it, and this would require only advice of the Chamber of Com the anxiety of the owners and only be increased if the attempt work as the scheme suggested by how the facilities could best be typhoon times. This aspect of the strongly in favour of it. After the town. European passengers were made to provide further whar- the two captains-certainly a mare used; the Government did not want question had not been put, so far further discussion, Mr. Fletcher would continue to take the Star

as he knew to the engineers-undertook to put the question of a Ferry, fage facilities in a district in which feasible proposal than the Harbour morely to sell to speculators.

The Hon. Mr. Lang: Do the whether quay walls which would wet dock before. Mr. Duncan on traffic was already heavy. The area bridge, to which there were greater Government want an adequate re-offer typhoon shelter could ise pro his returu from leave. would be a jumble of goods wagons, objections.

vided at reasonable cost. Having

Now 100ft. Roal trums and other traffic, and it must Discussing Captain Davison's turn of the capital?

regard to the fact that be remembered that it was already come, Mr. Fletcher auggested

Mr. Fletcher: Undoubtedly.

Mr. Sutherland mentioned the densely populated. The alternatives, that Captain Davison had looked at

50 or 100 years, it was worth question of transport and col Mr. Lang: Basing it on 6 and 7 Colony was building for the next per cent.?" were either to remove godown busi-the problem rather from his own

while to consider this aspect be munication between West Point ness from that part of the town, point of view as the nunster of a Mr. Fletcher: That is the inten-fore being committed to large ex- and any new area developed at

tion, certainly.

North Point. To move the centre penditure. giving it up to office purposes only, ship, and for the definite purpose

Mr. Lang emphasised the im-

of business or take the risk of further congest-of providing shelter the wuggestion!

would be a very West Dock Scheme. gradual process and there must be ing it, thereby sending up the value was undoubtedly admirable. From portance of Shipping Companies

Mr. Fletcher thought that the means of transport because the cargo business impracticable on ever, Mr. Fletcher saw objectionsable cast of tairing up sections of Consulting Engineers had in view consumer was at West Point The Chairman: Then the Jordan position, which naval understanding of land enormously and making a commercial point of view, how fuving some information as to prob account of the onormous expense.to the scheme. First, the angle off the proposed wharves, and Mr. the question: indicated by Mr.although the bulk of the cargo Road scheme came along and it will give both countries in the

Tletcher replied that, if it was

might be at North Point. What had. Precise details had not been gone the Camber would bring the whole decided to proceed with the scheme, Mr. Anderson added that "at the Government in view for linking, was decided to await develop Mediterranean across the Fronchi into thoroughly, but Mr. Duncan of the washy of the sea into the assured him that the cost of develop-entrance of the Mongkoktsui Har-definite figures would be worked scheme was already in existence up these two very busy centres?

Mr. Flether replied that as soon ing the West Point district with bour Refuge destroying its useful-ont. Messrs. Butterfield it Swire for constructing à long arm pro-

Harbour and as Government could get the military lands and an expert wharves and transit godowns would ness completely. A great current Pposed to build a wharf and other jecting into the

would be set up and a junk would shipping comparties could see how enclosing an area for deep sea valuer was on the way from Home be prohibitive.

they fared.. North Point's Possibilities. be able to beat up against it...

Mr. Fletcher: Yes, and the 100 foot road would be made Mr. G. T. Edking: Might I sug-| Mr, Fletcher went on to say that

Engineers were strongly of from the City Hall, direct to North North Point, being undeveloped gest that Captains Davison and the Government was going on land, there was every opportunity Robinson have not committed them with the Kennedy Town scheme opinion that ships should leave the Point. In the meantime, Queen's Road was gradually. being of opening it up properly for wharf selves to this being the scheme it almost at once. He explained the wharves in typhoon weather.

Mr. Edkins: At Singapore where widened, He could not hold out an expansion of the Yarmati Havenstein, president of the Reichs and godown purposes. There was

sketch plan in some detail, es- no one in possession and develop-is merely an idea, a tentative one. mont would not bo hampered in any not think the Government, coulù, front areas to afford shipping wet dock. Here, where it is more district was so congested, but, as carrying at least to lorries each at the end of last year owing to his Mr. Fletcher added that he did pecially as to the reservation of the you have no hurricanes, you have very much hope westward as the service. It was intended to pro Brak. He cang into prominence way. A 35 ft. road along the Har- bour front and already been tantsuro the Naval Camber, unless facilities. Fixed decisions would important, we have no such thing motor transport developed, com tively decided upon and there would they spent a fortune in patting it not be made now but, at any rate, and I think we ought to ask our munication would improve. Rice personally was pressing for a refusal to give further credit to Ger the area would not be sold Consulting Engineers whether it shas would tend to be driven off free ferry for passengers pot for man commerce when the mark somewhere else.

is possible to design sheltered the streets, and the Government lorries and if that principle were issue passed the million million be godowns of the most modern

for tenement houses or ordinary Mr. Fletcher demonstrated by a kind facing the sea.

Star Ferry. That was only an ex-

LONDON, November 20. In this connection Mr. Fletcher sketch that the angle shown in the Chinese occupation. The Ken-wharves in place, of open ones, contemplated taking the chairs off adopted, presumably the Govern figure, an

district between Queen's Road and

pression of his own personal. The death is reported of the Rev. quoted from a Minute by the projecting arm of Captain Davison's nedy Town scheme was regarded We have got the money.: is it not the streets altogether in the City mont would have to take over the DR. JOHN CLIFFORD.

plan, if that arm commenced fur by the Government as a develop worth while putting the question?

Mr. Anderson: The question the sea. ment, and not as one adding to the

Mr. Sutherland asked if the 100 opinion he thought it was to the John Clifford, D.D., the famous Director of Public Works, dated ther to the southward would give congestion in a very crowded area. had really been put into the Con 7.3.23, strongly urging the develop rise to difficulties in connection wil This scheme would expand West sulting Engineers in the course of foot road would be taken along the public interest to bave a free ferry. Baptist divine, at one time pre-

just as one had a free road.

dent of the London Baptist Associ -anent of North Point. Reports railway construction because the Point and that was the Govers-conversation in the office. Their Harbour front.

Mr. Flatcher replied in the

The Chairman: Is the feeling tian. He was a great publicist and were also obtained as to the possible

opinion was asked on the question effect of the works there upon tides, angle would be too scute for trucks ment's desire.

The Chairman: If you charge generally having regard to the negative, adding that a narrower of the meeting, that a vehicular wive many books during the wor and expert opinions were given that to negotiate, The godowns on the

the godowns and the tinued; that vehicular ferries are no special difficulties would be set projecting arm would not give shipping or godown companies say fact that to a typhoon with a wind road would be more suitable be ferry at Jordan Road is desirable, He was 83 years old: up in the Barbour currents by me would be congestion. The scheme think it is certain that the result wind pressure was developed on wharves, and it was desired not to desirable there also? If so, the

facilities for sorting cargo and there 7 per cent on the outlay, I do not velocity of 130 miles per hour, a tween Mr. T. I. Perkins wrote: "The provided for only one line of railway would be to reduce the cost of the sides of ships of 60 lbs per sq. congest them by admitting through Government will work the

handling point of working cargo because it would ft. The Engineers said it was traffic. The godown owners would Government is practically com-view seemned no jupossible ariungerepresent an enormous sum. The structing wharves which would which would be a thoroughfare for Put it before us for our views.

impossible to contemplate con-have right across the Harbour road, scheme in detail and eventually

This was agreed to." mitted to develop the North Point ment.

charges at present give returns on

transit of cargo and not a public Faroshore, and filling from the new

Typhoon Refuges, 100 foot road is already being Planning Scheme for Kowloon, and godowns were constructed

Producing a map of the Town values at the time when the wharves protect ship against such winds.

Mr. Edklos: What about the road. At North Point an area 800- "Tamar"?

foot, wide between the 100 foot The Harbour Master exhibited deposited on the Western end Mr. Fletcher subruitted that the which is a very different thing. thereof for that pupose, and I ven-

Mr. Anderson suggested in road and the seawall would be a plan showing a suggested means Port TrustA reply that the Tamar was in an reserved for shipping business of providing typhoon shelter at ture to assort that in the future milway connection between the

suggested wharf and Yaumati would Mr. Fletcher: Would you advise exceptionally well possession of much a magnificent be through the most crowded parta-Port Trust or anything of that position.

sheltered premises, and not used for Shaukiwanand Mr. Fletcher unders

residential purposes... We took to go into the question. A stretch of deep water frontage with of Yaunti, whereas, ut Hunghoni, Rind? I think we ought not to be Mr. Weall. Is it within the The Chairman: In view of the

It was indicated that this ques wharfage alongside and stacking aren extending back to the main aniple land was available near the deterred by the consideration that bounds of possibility to devise fact that Mr. Fletcher is in favour tion is also under consideration Trade in Canada for the twelv rond-and for a great portion of its railway for offices, sorting shods, the work is expensive but, if the sheltered sea docks hot of deferring the question of Har with the object of carrying out mental endins October and etc., in addition to the space pro-Government is to do it, it will have Mr. Edking This new idea bour development until Mr. works originally suggested but not lengür 800 foot in depth-the vided on the wharves themselves to have an adequate return and, if having been Groght forward by Dancan contes back, is it the put into effect at the time of con- to importe 5912,000,000, experts

$994,000,000, showing increases Government holds a field for future The whole point of the Hunghom the Government undertake a Port Capt. Davison, I think it would be feeling of deferto consideration struction of the refuge, an account $172,000,000 and 3178,000,000 res Harbour Development second only in value to that proposed to be suhinage was the large background of Trust, it will have to give some a great pity to embark on anould also defer the consideration of high cost

several of other questions relating to the Moorings pectively compared with the retum created at Hunghon, and and which ding accommodation for offices compensation to present owners an expenditure of

As to the North Point scheme million sterling without asking Harbour?

On the question of the allocation for last your on re account should be alienated godowns and sidings. The great

trouble at present was the lack of Mr. Fletcher said it was proposed the Engineers their oplafon The meeting agreed to this of moorings, Mr. Fletcher suggest for any purpose unconnected with handling facilities by modern to develop this area entirely for as to the possibility of course being taken, Mr. Fletchered that this was simply a matter Ehipping.

Mr. Peridus continued: Through- methods immediately behind the cargo handling and godowns and constructing a sheltered dock for stipulating that work would for the Shipping Sub-Committee of

proceed on the reclamation at the Chamber and the Harbour, against Leon Brooks

At the Old Bailey the out Hongkong's extended milos of harves. The Hunghom District not to permit residential use. The deep sen vessels,

The Committee indicated their North Point.MARS Master to make ruira. was not nearly so congested as whale, frontage to a considerable sea front then is not at present on Yaumata depth it was proposed to reserve approval of this suggestion by loud

A Ferry Problems.

On the question of small ships of converting e quan

and Harry Jacobson, applause targle place set apart for facilitating to comparative costs, without absolutely for Port use.

The Chairman recuarked that the anchoring at strongest moorings, Ters to their own: the landing and distribution of committing himself to precis

Mr. Fletcher Agreed that a dick question of the lordan Road ferry Mr. Fletcher asked why moorings. Hyman Sitto building materials and for receive details, bo could say that, in Mr.

would be most desirable if it could landing was rather bound up with should not be made so strong that merch

Capt. Davison's scheme...

wing they would bold anything majke *mingha

work.

posed of yearly in every big city.

21:

which, from

Mr. Edidas.

4

vessels.

ments.

Mr. Fletcher remarked, with gard to rumours of taking over by the Government, that it was much better to come and ask a definite question.

In reply to further questions, Mr. Fletcher said the Government regarded the Jordan Roid ferry as

vide for large vessels capable of

that the Star Ferry should be con

line of communications with North Africa.

OBITUARIES.

HERR HAVENSTEIN,

BERLIN, November 20. The death is announced of Harr

** RUHR LOCKOUTS.

DUESSELDORF, November 20, General Degoutte has issued su Ordinance forbidding wholesale lock-outs on the 80th it. on penalty of five years' imprisonment. and s fine of half a million gold marks.

CANADIAN TRADE.

the vast amount of debris, other Anderson's opinion, Capt. Davi was very much indebted to Mr.The Chairman anggested that the Mr. Fletcher: Yes, it is, but haThe Harbour Master teplied thar

Mr. Edkins said that the meeting be built. than refuse, which has to be die son's schome would cont at least as Fletcher for outlining sp fully the two Japanese steamers which were any case the Government have if a hot dontestion(strength of they were Perbelas of such Rogando much as the Hunghan scheme. At Goverment idem fle was sure driven alongside piers, bi the gore exceedingly carefully tim must be costing the community unghom it was known that solid the Chamber desired to do every typhoon of August 18 did not suse Mr. Duncan has worked ver yearly much more than it could ever bottom existed thirty-six foot thing possible to help the Govend zain much damaged for pardon it, id the Governme have realised in the past by the sale down; west of Kowloon Point solid ment to the best solution of these Mr. Fletcher sought that the vinced that of quitable ates for this purpose bottom was probably a great deal difficult problems, the solution of reason for that was that the fear nearer the centre of the City, and deeper, and if that was so of course which would have so much bearing did not come alongside until

although North Paint from its post

tion at and extremity of it waT

etleri matiniactorily-moet thei

da so to a very consKid

terry

the expense would be hormously on the futar

incrennodige

the present H

than on late in the typhoon also, that

"Government

MEF Fietsher added that the Cany

vehicular traf

Is closer to the

Only a limi served by

OTTOWA, November 20

of

oneer

ing to

mood.