CO885-5 — Page 369

། ། ། །

PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

Reference :-

BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO

C.O. 885 / 5 PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

291

Considers it quite "fair" that the Colonies should pay everything and the Admiralty nothing, Mr. Gillies cannot look upon it in the same light.

The Admiral takes exception to the use of the expression "insufficient naval squadron," and contends that it is not insufficient," "and that it would be unwise" to increase to any considerable extent this squadron at the cost of the fleet of the nation."

It is not proposed to increase this quadron at the cost of the nation, but it has been proposed to increase it, because the existing naval squadron has not been considered á sufficiently satisfactory defence in the event of war; and the whole of the defence proposals which are really now under discussion are all based on that assumption.

The Admiral, in referring to the resolution adopted by the Sydney Conference in 1881, on the increase of the naval squadron, remarks that the subject does not appear to have been discussed from any general national or naval standpoint.

The object of Mr. Gillies in making reference to that resolution of the Conference had no reference to whether the subject was discussed from a national or naval stand- point, but only to the fact that the representatives of the Colonies expressed the opinion that the squadron should be increased, and increased solely at the cost of the Imperial Treasury, and that the Secretary of State, in referring to this resolution, only expressed dissent from that part of the proposal which stated that such increase should be solely at the expense of the Imperial Treasury, evidently indicating that the proposal would have been a "fair" one if the increased cost were divided between the Imperial Govern- inent and the Colonies..

+6

Mr. Gillies quite concurs with the Admiral that "there is not one word that has been "written or uttered to show that the Imperial Government does not recognise its responsibilities." Concurring in that view, Mr. Gillies feels the more confidence in urging his view that the Imperial Government should be asked to share with the Colonies a small proportion of the cost of providing these additional defences.

With reference to the peace footing it was understood that the men were to be obtained from the reserve. It is presumed that if these vessels were provided in times of the provision would only be for a peace footing, and that in time of war the reserve would peace be drawn upon to provide for a war footing. I quite concur with the view put in para- graph 13 of the Admiral's letter now under notice, that the maintenance of the ships while in reserve should be included in the estimate.

The Admiral asks whether it is the wish of your Excellency's Government that he should transmit to England the proposal which has been submitted on behalf of Victoria, and desires to know "whether in their opinion it is in the interests of Australasia to "adhere in their entirety to the present proposals," the "present proposals" being those submitted by your Excellency's Government.

It appears to Mr. Gillies that before any practical result can be attained by these proposals the views of the various Colonies should be forwarded and considered, and it is possible that the views of some of them may be afterwards modified to secure unanimity.

The sentiments to which the Admiral has given expression in his letter of the 28th ultimo, in which he refers to the interests of the Empire being one, and to the deter- mination of the Imperial Government to defend the Empire in all parts of the world, and notably in Australasia, are such as well become a distinguished officer occupying a high position in the confidence of the Imperial Government; and the views which Mr. Gillies has expressed in his memorandum of the 20th May on the naval defences give effect to these sentiments of the Admiral by proposing that the cost of the additional and effective defence necessary for the protection of the Imperial as well as Colonial interests in these seus should be borne by both the Imperial and Colonial Governments.

The great concern which the Admiral has throughout displayed in the protection of the pockets of the British taxpayer is no doubt very much to be commended, but Mr. Gillies would submit with great confidence that the British taxpayer will not refuse to share in an expenditure as much for his own advantage, and to protect his own interests, as it is those of the Colonies.

As to notice being given to terminate agreement there can be no objection. Mr. Gillies may add that he has reason to believe that the respective Governments of New Zealand, South Australia, and Tasmania share the views of the Government of Victoria on this question.

It has been considered desirable to let you have a memorandum on the Admiral's letter as early as possible, so as to reach him before he leaves Sydney.

(Signed) D. GILLIES,

295

"K."

From COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF, Australia.

COLONIAL NAVAL DEFENCE.-MEMORANDUM from MINISTERS, New Zealand, as to AMOUNT of CONTRIBUTION. Explaining their MEMORANDUM of March 27, 1886.

"Nelson," at Sydney, June 13, 1886. REFERRING to the memorandum dated 27th March 1886, from Ministers, New Zealand, pages 17-18 of the papers on Colonial naval defences forwarded to their Lordships with my letter dated 3rd May 1886, and to my note at page 18 of the same.

I have now the honour to enclose a memorandum which his Excellency the Governor of New Zealand has sent me further explaining the views of his Ministers.

G. TRYON, The Secretary of the Admiralty.

MEMORANDUM for His EXCELLENCY,

Rear-Admiral.

Premier's Office, Wellington, May 17, 1886. MINISTERS have the honour to return the papers on naval defence laid before the meeting of Premiers of New South Wales, Victoria, and Queensland with Admiral Tryon, and also the Admiral's letter to your Excellency.

The ninth paragraph of the memorandum of Ministers dated 27th March 1886, is open to the misconstruction the Admiral has placed upon it in his note. Ministers did not mean that the 20,000, which they thought a fair sum for New Zealand to pay, would cover the total cost of the two vessels they asked should be provided for New Zealand.

Ministers have nothing to add to what was stated in the memorandum of 27th March, but if his Excellency permits, they would suggest that the papers may be printed and laid before Parliament.

ROBERT STOUT,

"L."

(Signed)

From COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF, Australia.

Premier.

COLONIAL NAVAL DEFENCE.-MEMORANDUM by PREMIER of TASMANIA explaining VIEWS of MINISTERS.

"Nelson," at Moreton Bay,

July 20, 1886.

SUBMITTED, with reference to the telegram from Tasmania, dated 19th April 1886, at page 1 of the printed papers on Colonial Naval Defence, forwarded with my letter dated 3rd May 1886. Copy of my reply is also attached.

(Signed) G. TRYON, The Secretary of the Admiralty.

SIR,

Rear-Admiral.

Enclosure No. 1 in Australian Submission of 20th July 1886.

Government House, Hobart,

June 25, 1886.

WITH reference to your letters of the 3rd and 18th of May and 6th of June last, upon the subject of Inter-Colonial Naval Defence, I have the honour to forward four copies of a memorandum which I have this day received from the Premier.

Rear-Admiral Tryon, C.B.,

&c.

&c.

&c., H.M.S. "Nelson," Sydney.

I have, &c. (Signed) GEO. C. STRAHAN.

Premier.

A 51431.