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From His Excellency the GOVERNOR OF NEW ZEALAND to Admiral TRYON, enclosing a MEMORANDUM by MINISTERS ON-NAVAL DEFENCE; also a NOTE as to the NATURE of the REPLY sent.

(Received on the second day of the meeting, 27th April 1886.)

SIR,

Government House, Auckland, April 19, 1886. WITH reference to your letter of the 24th of December last, relating to Naval Defences, and to the meeting that took place at Government House during your recent visit to New Zealand, when you discussed the question with myself and some of my Ministers, I have the honour to forward herewith copies of a memorandum which I have just received from my Ministers on the subject.

I shall feel obliged if you will communicate to me any observations which you may desire to offer on the proposals contained therein.

I have, &c.

WM. F. DRUMMOND JERVOIS.

Memorandum for His Excellency.

MINISTERS have the honour to lay before his Excellency the conclusions at which they have arrived upon the subject of naval defences, after considering the various papers placed before them, including the précis of what took place at the interview which they had with the Governor and the Admiral.

2. During the time when war with Russia seemed imminent, they suggested that a first-class cruiser of the " Esmeralda" type should be specially stationed in New Zealand waters, to form part of the squadron under Rear-Admiral Tryon, but her disposition in New Zealand waters to be controlled by the Governor with the advice of his Ministers, as it would be especially desirable for her to be available for coast surveys, and for the training of Colonial forces on shore. With regard to the cost the Government proposed to pay annually 3 per cent. on the original cost, and also for all repairs while stationed in the Colony; further, that the Colony would also pay two-thirds of the total expense of the crew and maintenance of the ship.

3. The Admiralty has, through the Admiral, in that officer's letter of the 24th December 1885, made what may be termed counter-proposals; and they may be shortly stated as follows:-

(a.) That the purely local naval defence force which has already been created with so much spirit in several Colonies at their own instance, shall remain much on the footing that has been already established.

(b.) That any sea-going vessels that may be provided, equipped, and maintained at the cost of the Colonies should be inanned by the Admiralty, and be placed in every respect on the same footing as are Her Majesty's vessels at present belonging to the station, &c.

(c.) That the vessels provided at the cost of the Colonies should be retained within

the limits of the Australasian seas.

(d) That no reduction of the forces now on the station shall take place consequent

on the addition of any force made at the cost of the Colonies.

(e) That the entire cost of these vessels will be borne by the Colonies. (A) That an increased number of cadetships shall be given to the Colonies.

(g) That during a time of peace these vessels should be employed in the same way

as are other vessels of war on the station

(h.) That any arrangement made shall be for a period of years-ten has been

suggested.

That it is contemplated the several Colonies will still continue to arrange for local defence, and that any sea-going vessels of war it might be desired to add to the squadron on the station should not be subject to any divided responsibility as to their movements within Australasian waters, but they should form part of the squadron, and be solely and entirely under one responsible head.

4. The main points of difference between the suggestions formerly made by Ministers and those submitted by the Admiral are-

may be

(1.) Whether New Zealand is to join the other Colonies in providing what

termed an Australasian fleet, or whether. New Zealand is herself to make

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arrangements with the Admiralty independently of the other Australian Colonies.

(2.) Whether the ships are to be deemed to belong to the Colonies, or whether the Colonies are merely to pay a certain amount for interest and sinking fund, the Admiralty, if need be, changing the vessels.

5. Ministers think that these proposals, though apparently divergent, may easily be reconciled. They are of opinion that the circumstances of New Zealand, and its distance from Australia, make the question of its naval defence distinct from that of the defence of the Australian Continent; and they believe that it is, therefore, expedient that the arrangement to be made should be a direct one between the Colony and the mother country.

6. Ministers consider that the Colony would be willing to contribute an annual payment to the Imperial Exchequer, say, of 20,000, to be expended in strengthening the naval defence of New Zealand.

7. In time of war the extra ships would, of course, be at the absolute discretion of the Admiral, to be placed in such a position as the authorities consider most suitable for the defence of the shipping and ports. Ministers recognise the force of the observation of Admiral Tryon that the best defence of New Zealand might, in time of war, be far distant from her shores.

8. In time of peace, however, Ministers consider that some port in this Colony should be the established head-quarters of at least two vessels of the fleet. The fine harbours in New Zealand, and its proximity to the Fijian and other groups of l'acific Islands, make it specially suitable for the purpose. They also feel that hitherto less attention has been paid to New Zealand by Imperial war vessels than by those of foreign nations; and they may refer to a previous memorandum (No. 29), of the 8th May 1885, to bear them out in this assertion.

9. If the Imperial Government agree to the conditions Ministers have indicated. they will be willing to recommend Parliament to make the provision they have named, for say, ten years. In fixing the sum they have been guided by the belief that, with a small contribution from Fiji, it will be sufficient to maintain two vessels of the class the Admiral recommends. And they have limited the time to ten years as by that time the circumstances may have so changed as to make a review of the arrangement

necessary.

10. Ministers would, in conclusion, point out that the Colony has been put to considerable expense in defending its harbours. It will still maintain its own defence works, harbour torpedoes, and artillery corps, and various volunteer companies, in a state of efficiency. It, however, looks to the Imperial Government for the aid proposed for naval defence.

Wellington, 27th March 1886.

ROBERT STOUT.

---

NOTE. I have written to New Zealand to point out the erroneous impression entertained in paragraph 9.

I have sent the telegram of 25th April, which shows the prime cost, and also the cost of maintaining an "Archer" and a torpedo-catcher, a matter on which they previously were not fully acquainted.

I have also pointed out, while the sum named is not nearly sufficient to provide the vessels they suppose it would, it would go a long way towards paying the share that would fall to New Zealand if all the Colonies in Australasian waters joined and agreed to create a naval force out of funds provided by each Colony according to its population.

I have also pointed out that united action on the part of all the Colonies is not probable, if it is stipulated that during peace two vessels should always remain in any particular waters, but that the spirit of the wishes of the Ministers would be fully met by an assurance that the ports of New Zealand would be frequently visited either by single ships, or at intervals by several ships cruising together as a squadron, an arrange- ment which is in accord with my existing orders, but which is rarely done owing to the numerous calls made for vessels to visit distant islands.

G. TRYON,

H.M.S. "Nelson," at Sydney,

27th April 1886.

Rear-Admiral and Commander-in-Chief.

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COLONIAL NAVAL DEFENCE.-PROPOSALS of the GOVERNMENTS of NEW SOUTH WALES, VICTORIA, and QUEENSLAND.

SIR,

Seven Enclosures.

<

Nelson," at Sydney, May 30, 1886. WITH reference to their Lordships' telegrams of the 2nd December 1885 and of the 24th March 1886, I beg to forward communications which I have received from their Excellencies the Governors of New South Wales, Victoria, and Queensland, which represent the views of the Governments of those Colonies. I understand that the Premiers are prepared to bring forward the necessary New South Wales, 15 May 1886. measures in their respective Parliaments, so soon as they are assured of the assent of the Lords Commissioners of the Admiralty.

Enclosure 1.

Memorandum.

Enclosure 2. Memorandum.

Victoria, 20 May 1986.

Enclosure 3. Memorandum. Victoria, 25 May 1886.

Enclosure 4. Memorandum. Queensland, 3 May 1986.

Enclosure 5.

Colonial Naval Defence. Proposals made.

The views of the Government of Tasmania I have already transmitted to their Lordships in my Despatch of the 3rd May 1886.

2. It will be noted that while the Governments of New South Wales, Queensland, and Tasmania, are in accord that the whole cost of maintenance should be borne by the Colonies, and that a rent should be paid for the vessels, the Government of Victoria proposes, that while the Colonies should bear the charge for maintenance, that the whole cost of providing the vessels should be borne by the British tax- payer at home.

3. It was urged that, should the arrangement now pro- posed come to an end in due course, then a great difficulty would be found, if the Colonies were joint owners, in dividing the property.

4. It was also urged that there was a difficulty in asking the several Parliaments to pay outright for vessels if they were to be the property of the Admiralty eventually. I am also aware that in addition to the above there was running in their minds, what would the Colonies do with the vessels when they became inefficient or obsolete? a matter which affects the Imperial as well as the Colonial Governments; but it is to be observed that vessels of the proposed classes do not become obsolete under many years, and remain useful till they are fairly worn out.

5. I adhered, during the discussion, and always, to the original proposal which, till recently, contemplated the entire payment for the vessels on every count by the Colonies, and have not expressed an opinion as to whether the present proposa! will be accepted.

6. I acquainted those who came to the meeting on board H.M.S. "Nelson" that the point raised as to paying a rent for the vessels was one not covered by my instructions, and would have to be referred home for their Lordships' decision.

7. The present proposal by the Governments of New South Wales, Queensland, and Tasmania, if all the Colonies join, is to contribute approximately 183,000l. a year towards an increase of the fleet, made up of the following estimates :—

£

Say, 5 per cent. per annum on 625,889, the first cost of the vessels Entire cost of maintenance of five " Archers'

31,294

127,280

Entire cost of maintenance of two torpedo catchers Annual cost of change of crews

22,058

3,300

£183,932

8. If some of the vessels, say two "Archers" and one torpedo catcher, are placed in reserve, the total annual charge would be approximately 150,000/., as should some one or more of the Colonies not join then it is probable that the other Colonies would desire that the total of the proposed contribution should be reduced, and the ships also to a corresponding extent. With the above-named expenditure no inconsiderable addition would be made to Her Majesty's fleet.

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9. I have no means of estimating the cost of an increase to the fleet under the aoove conditions to the Imperial Government; much depends on what the figures for main- tenance are estimated to cover. I have not this information.

10. The cost of administration and the increasing cost of the depot at Sydney has never been named.

11. On the whole I trust their Lordships will consider this proposal to have weight. I refrain from doing more than to refer to the political aspect of the case, and to the practical desire to unite for national purposes with the mother country, thus exhibited by the Colonies.

12. The payments would be secured by a permanent vote passed by the Parliament of each Colony before the arrangement could be carried into effect.

13. Current payments would be made precisely in the same way as they are now for all other of Her Majesty's ships, and the accounts closed each year in the same way and at the same time as in Eugiand, and differences between estimates and expenditure would also be adjusted annually.

14. To sum up, the proposal of New South Wales, Queensland, and Tasmania, is that the Colonies should pay, say, 5 per cent. on the first and prime cost of the vessels, and bear all other charges. The agreement to last for 10 years and only terminate if and provided a notice had been given three years previously, viz., at the end of the seventh year, or at the end of any subsequent year, and then three years after that.

15. I beg to mention that an early reply to this communication is anxiously waited by the respective Governments. It is possible it will be conveyed in a telegram by their Lordships; this appears to be all the more necessary should the Governments of one or more of the Colonies change, a matter that is of not frequem occurrence, whole subject will have, in all probability, to be approached afresh.

the

16. By the last mail I appended a copy of my replies to their Excellencies the Governors of New South Wales and Queensland, and now

Enclosure 6.

Reply to Governor of Victoria. Dated 27 May 1886. Enclosure 7. Letter to Governor of Victoria, Dated 28 May 1886.

1 enclose my reply to his Excellency the Governor of Victoria, as well as a copy of a further letter which I have addressed to him.

The Secretary of the Admiralty.

I have, &c. (Signed)

G. TRYON.

Rear-Admiral.

Enclosure No. 1 in Australian Letter No. 255 of May 30, 1880. MEMORANDUM for His Excellency the Right Hon. Lord CARRINGgton, P.C., G.C.M.G., &c., as to the JOINT NAVAL DEFENCE of AUSTRALASIA. REFERRING to the recent personal communications to his Excellency the Governor on the subject of the meeting between his Excellency, Admiral Tryon, the Hon. S. W. Griffith, the Hon. Duncan Gillies, and myself, which took place on the 26th and 27th April, on board H.M.S." Nelson," with the view of securing a common course of action between the Imperial and Colonial Governments for the naval defence of the Australasian Colonies, it is now my duty to submit to his Excellency a statement of the results of that meeting.

2. As the two Prime Ministers of Victoria and Queensland accepted the invitation of the Admiral to visit him at this place, it seemed to me my duty, at as early a period as possible, to put before the meeting the views entertained by his Excellency's advisers on the important question which the meeting was called upon to discuss. I did this in the following memorandum, which I have prepared for the purpose (as it affirms) of defining our own opinions on the subject, and preventing misunderstanding.

"Memorandum read by Sir Patrick Jennings at Meeting of His Excellency Admiral Tryon, and the Premiers of Victoria, Queensland, and New South Wales, on board H.M.S.

Nelson, on the 26th and 27th April 1886.

"I have thought it desirable to commit to writing the views of the Government of this country on the very important question which is the subject of our present interview. I do this, first of all, for the purpose of more clearly defining our opinions on the subject,

and preventing as far as possible any possibility of misunderstanding; and secondly, with S s

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