CO885-24 — Page 351

PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

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Reference :-

C.O. 885

24 PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC-

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8 February 1915.]

OVERSEA PRIZE DISPOSAL COMMITTEE:

Mr. GLANVILL.

951. That is the recognised procedure P-Yes, the procedure in the case of your cover is special, but the recognised payment ander a fire policy is always the market value on the day of the fire; and it would be for those two gentlemen, with the third, if necessary, to arrive at that value. My own idea is that if there was a big fire at Alexandria to-morrow we should be able to come to an arrangement that would satisfy everybody without question. That is merely a proviso.

952. (Mr. Tennyson.) In sending out our instruc tions to our local officials what should we tell them to do in the event of fire ?-I think the course for them to adopt would be to cable over here at once.

953. Cable the fact of the fire?-Yes, and the amount of loss, if they could estimate it.

954. The amount of the loss ?--Yes.

955. Stating the basis of valuation P--I think it would be the wisest thing not to do that. I should suggest they should simply state that a fire has taken place. Of course, they would not cable unless the fire involved a great deal. If it were a fire of any size we should at once send somebody out. Somebody would go out by the next steamer,

are

956. (Chairman.) You have people who thoroughly conversant with this form of business? -Yes; apart from the companies who have their own representatives there, we have our own people, i..., Lloyd's agents out there whom we should communicate with if necessary.

957. (Mr. Tonnyson.) You do not expressly state in this letter that if there are any existing insurances effected by the local governments, and a fire occurs while those insurances are still running, then we do not pay premiums to that extent. I understood you to say the other day that this would be provided for, but in your letter you only refer to cases where an insurance is effected by the receivers P-1 will put that into a letter. That is understood by the companies. The companies tell me that no local insurance has been done with them.

938. (Chairman.) Nothing has been done?—No; they have not been able to trace anything. We have nine of the largest companies in London on this business, and they have told me that nothing has been ← done. A thing like that would have come through to them by this time because the Colonial branches have to advise over here. But still, I will write to you to that effect, ie., to cancel if Dominion Governments have insured, because that is agreed.

959. (Mr. Wakely.) Have you any ideas with regard to the treatment of any of the consignments that may have been released since the cover was taken out and before our instructions went out ? I did not realise the cover was being taken out on the 29th, and our instructions only went on Saturday. We do not know whether anything was released in the interval. I was wondering what view was taken and as to whether those things would be excluded altogether ?—I think The BO, I think in a case like this it would be so. circumstances are so exceptional that anything that bad happened in that way during the two or three days would simply be allowed to pass, I think.

(Mr. Wakely.) That is what I should have thought. (Chairman.) Now, with regard to the ships them- #elves. I think the intention is to cover them as long as they are lying in ports where they may be in the custody of the officials of the Prize Court, but when we take them into ranring, and they come into the custody of the State, then the insurance ceases ?—Yes. 960. And, of course, if the ships were not taken over by the State at all, but remained in the custody of the Prize Court, the insurance would run right away to the end of the war P-Yes.

961. As a matter of fact, I think we have very few You will see it on ships which will be affected now. our printed lists.

(Mr. Tennyson.) That is so. If you will look at the list you will see the position. On the first page the "Wotan," the "Carl Rudgert Vinnen," the "Olinda," and the the "Athene," the "Susanne Vinnen " "Ernst "-those six are still in port, but they are inviting tenders for them. I think none excepting the

[Continued.

"Ernst "will be in port for more than a month. Then on the next page there is nothing except the "Bellas." Then the next page are the Egyptian ones. The

Acnne Rickmers " is in requisition, and the **Barenfels we hope to remove. The Rabenfels" is in requisition too. Then in Hong Kong there is the "Rajaburi"; we are trying to dispose of her now. Then in South Africa there are those three little vessels, the Seeadler," the "Stormvogel," and the "Bismarck." Then there are the "Apolda" and the "Hamm," which may or may not be in use within the month. Then the "Quarta," she will not be over a month. The other three, we believe, are already in use. Then there are a number of small ships at Zanzibar. I do not know whether it would be desired to cover them. (Mr. Burstow.) Would these be ships that the German owners would be likely to have insured in any case!

(Chairman) I think they are all probably insured. but, of course, the value is very problematical. It may be only 1 or 21., or it may be several hundreds.

(Mr. Roper.) Then there are all the Indian one 3. (Mr. Wakely.) They are all employed, I think. (3r. hoper.) And Burmah too.

(Mr. Wakely.) Yes, I think so.

(Mr. Roper.) There is practically very little in the way of ships that one can see.

are

(Chairman.) What is the " Diana"? A steamer?

I think we (Mr. Roper.) Yes; 1,200 tons. asking for offers for her.

(Mr. Holt.) Elder, Dempster do not want it, but John Holt wants it. The Niger Company have not replied.

her.

(Chairman) What is the tug "Apapa "?

(Mr. Roper.) I do not know anything about

(Chairman.) Is she going to be a prize, or to be detained?

(Mr. Tennyson.) I think all those three will be detained.

(Chairman.) How about the four in Egypt!

(Mr. Malkin.) I am not sure that the Rabenfels " will not have to come off.

(Witness.) The only thing I would suggest here, if I may, is this. It is very important as far as under- writers are concerned, who have accepted the risk of these vessels, that I should know, if possible to-day. whether I may say that certain vessels or cargo will be on risk or will not be on risk. With this wording that I have got now, strictly speaking, every vessel that is detained by an order of the local Prize Court already made should automatically be insured under this cover from the date of the commencement of the cover. If you do not require that, I would like to go and say to these companies, "Now there is no risk "under this cover except the four steamers which we have already notified you as commencing on the "noon of the 27th, and anything else that is coming "on is not to be by order of the Prize Court but it "is to be by name," I should not like you to have a big fire to-night somewhere. If the Prize Court had ordered a vessel to be detained during the continuance of the war you would be able to recover. You must decide which course to adopt.

(Chairman.) With regard to the vessels in Nigeria there is no order at all; they are still in the custody of the Crown.

(Witness.) As long as we understand there is nothing to cover, it is all right. I do not wish you to feel I am doing something for you that I am not doing.

962. (Chairman.) They will not come under this class at all because there has no decree yet been made. With regard to the vessels in India they are all out of the custody of the court ?-They are all right then.

963. (Mr. Wakely.) We are not quite clear about that, I think. There are one or two which may be lying up. I think it is pretty certain - We do not want to be unreasonable about it. With my insurance mind, I am looking at it from the point of view of a fire to-night, and my having to say to you," Well, I am

8 February 1915.]

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE,

Mr. GLANVILL.

very sorry, but the court has not ordered this vessel to be detained, and there is, therefore, no cover," or rice versi.

(Chairman.) With regard to the danger to vessels, what is happening to the Frankenfels "

(Mr. Wakely.) I think she is just coming home. I am not sure. With regard to the "Pugenturm," the Frankenfels" and the Freienfels," I think all three have been used for military purposes and are now going to be used for trade, but I am not sure.

(Chairman) Have they all been taken up by the Government?

(Mr. Wakely.) Yes. We have not heard anything about the one Turkish ship, the "Kara Deniz."

(Chairman.) With regard to the ships in Zanzibar no order has been made yet, and so they do not come

in.

(Mr. Roper.) All the other ships have had the order made. I think, long before this was thought of.

(Witness.) Under this clause, unless you tell me Homething to the contrary, if the order has been made, they automatically come under this cover on the 29th January, so that I want something that will cancel that automatic cover.

(Chairman.) That is why I am going through the list in this way. With regard to the ships from the Straits Settlements, the Quarta" will come under this clause she has not yet been delivered to the Admiralty-and the "Ranee "?

(Mr. Tennyson.) No, I believe the others are all out.

[Continued.

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Chairman.) The ships in South Africa will all come on the list. The "Rajaburi" will be on-that is Hong Kong. Are there any more in Egypt?

(Witness.) May I ask a question about the "Aenue Rickmers" in Egypt? There is a case that has been ordered to be detained, but there is an appeal. Does that come under the cover during the time betweer now and the appeal?

$164. (Chairman.) She is detained ?-But now she is being used. She will not be under the cover because she has been requisitioned ?

(Chairman.) That is 80. Will you add the Marquis Bacquehem" to the list; she is on page 7.

(Mr. Malkin.) We have made a temporary order for detention pending further argument in the case of the "Gutenfels"?

(Chairman.) Yes. In Canada there will be the "Bellas"; that is on page 2. There is nothing more on that page. On page 1, I think they are all in use.

(Mr. Tennyson.) No, there are six there which are not, I believe, but I will check them.

(Chairman.) Yes, I think you had better check the

naines.

(Witness.) You will send me a list of those because I would like to have them correct.

(Chairman) Yes, we will. I think that is as far as we can go, is it not ?

(Witness.) Yes, I think so. Is there anything else you wish to ask?

(Chairman.) No, I think not.

The witness withdrew.

Adjourned.

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