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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

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Reference

C.O. 885

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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO

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Mr. Seddon, warning him that, as he knew, the Commonwealth had not accepted it, in order that the Agreement should otherwise be complete and that point might receive final consideration and decision. I have embodied at greater length the result of these Conferences in the Memorandum which I have handed in to the Secretary here with the letters from the Prime Ministers of Capo Colony and Natal and Newfoundland as appendices, and I would propose to add this agreement as another appendix when it is That memorandum is nothing but an expansion of what I finally settled. have said here, and I would ask leave to hand it in.

Mr. SEDDON : But has it been referred to those interested for perusal before

you do so?

The FIRST LORD OF THE ADMIRALTY: I have only just handed it in.

Mr. SEDDON: In the case of the Colonial reserve Mr. Brodrick sent his draft memorandum first to us for our comments upon it. I think Lord Seiborne should do the same before putting it on the official record of our proceedings.

The FIRST LORD OF THE ADMIRALTY: By all means.

Mr. SEDDON : Before it is circulated or printed I think it should be seen by the Prime Ministers.

The SECRETARY: It would be more convenient to circulate it in print.

Mr. SEDDON: I do not know whether the point may be proceeded on now, we seem to be getting narrowed down now; it is not for me to embark upon it, but I do not know whether Sir Edmund Barton has noticed it

or not.

Sir EDMUND BARTON: What is that, Mr. Seddon?

Mr. SEDDON : As the draft agreement stands it states the base would be the ports of New Zealand and Australia, the sphere of operations should be Australian and New Zealand waters. My suggestion was that there should be a base of operations in peace and a base of operations in war, and the extended limits should come into force in time of war, and in peace it should be Australian and New Zealand waters. That of course was not carried out, but I-

Sir EDMUND BARTON: It would be easy to carry out the agreement if something of what you suggest were inserted in it,

Mr. SEDDON: Only deciding in the Conference afterwards.

The FIRST LORD OF THE ADMIRALTY: No, I suggest leaving it as it is.

It would be the Australian station, but if you once put in a distinction in case of war public attention will be called to the fact, and people will be saying, what does it mean?

Sir WILFRID LAURIER: Leave out "in case of war.'

Mr. SEDDON: Very well, I say in that case I have no objections. It is immaterial to me, because in time of peace Clause 13 ensures to New Zealand two vessels in addition to the-

The SECRETARY OF STATE: How is the proportion maintained? I suppose that there should be some proportion between the amount of contribution--

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Sir EDMUND BARTON: Mr. Seddon wants three-clovenths of the ships for a payment of one-sixth of the contribution.

Mr. SEDDON: It is not a question of proportion; it is a question of what is the proper thing to do with the ships on the stations. There is an agreement to add the three drill ships, of which New Zealand is to have one and Australia tho other two. Then, in respect of the original standing agreement, that two other ships then in commission should be stationed in New Zealand waters, I simply ask that the conditions which there obtain should be maintained in that respect, and I base my demand on this, that we now have an extended Now Zealand, by the islands of the Pacific, and those islands which previously have been served by one of the boats taken from Australia. Included in those islands now I was quite prepared to include Fiji and Tonga, that they might also be served too by one of the New Zealand vessels, but with that exception then I think it only reasonable that we should have the same number of boats, or should be prepared to take the suggestion made by Lord Selborne that we should have one of the second-class cruisers. I am quite propared to take one second-class cruiser or two other ships at the discretion of the Admiralty. With the exception that although the contribution as far as money is concerned is as stated by Sir Edmund Barton, we must admit at once the main contribution is neither Australian nor New Zealand; it is found by the Imperial authority.

Sir EDMUND BARTON: It does not alter the position as between us.

Mr. SEDDON: We have always had two ships; that, at all events, is the position.

Sir EDMUND BARTON: I shall not trouble the Conference with any lengthened remarks just now, Mr. Chamberlain, except to say that I feel myself unfortunate that I am not able to agree with my friend Mr. Seddon; that in fact I absolutely disagree with him. The relations of New Zealand and the Commonwealth in this matter. arc, prima facie, where there has been no intervening factor, determined by the proportions which they pay. Those are based on population. The seaboard of Australia is enormously larger than the seaboard of New Zealand. The fact that some of the sloops might be required to patrol islands under New Zealand influence in the Pacific is balanced by the fact that we require to patrol the coast of British New Guinea, which the Commonwealth has taken over, and may in the near future be required to patrol other parts of the South Sea Islands. But I take that not to be a factor at all, for this reason, that both during the last agreement and during the currency of this one it has been and will be the fact that the squadron will undertake the patrol of the Pacific Islands, no matter whether they are under the control of the Commonwealth or New Zealand, and the dominating factor of the situation seems to me to be this, either Australia and Now Zealand should be two separate stations or sub-stations, or one. If they are separate I quite understand Mr. Seddon bargaining for a certain measure of protection both in peace and war time. That could be defined and listinct.

If they

are to be administered as one, the safest thing for both of them is that the naval force should be administered and be under the direction, qua that station, of the Admiral commanding the naval force. That seems to me the only way in which the fullest measure of protection can be obtained by New Zealand as well as by Australia, and it is upon that principle that I base my inability to agree with Mr. Seddon as regards the thirteenth clause. I do not want to anticipato any further discussion that may take place, but before we meet, should like to ask Lord Selborne if he would consider the advisability of allowing us to open up the question of the proportion of naval cadete, and also if he will allow the twelfth clause with a slight alteration to be inserted at the end of Clause 2. Clause 2 speaks of the sphere of operations and lays down in clear terms that of course there may be occasion for the squadron to be withdrawn to other parts of Y 4