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PUBLIE RECORD OFFICE

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TLC.O. 885

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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

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cheap postage within the British Empire is a little embarrassing to me in this way.

Wo have before Parliament a Bill, which I dare say is now passed, providing for uniform postage rates quả Australia. We are dealing with six Colonies in our States, three of which had no newspaper postage at all, while the other three had newspaper postage. Of course to get any uniform rate at all we had to make it harder for those newspapers which were enjoying total and unwarranted freedom in three States, but in order to strike a middle line we inade a cheap postage rate which is a reduction in the main upon what has been charged before, but I do not think this Bill has been yet through Committee. At any rate the rate we are proposing is this, d. for 8 oz. of newspaper. That is not in bulk, but covers mostly the case of re-postages, but the bulk rate was to be 1d. per lb., no matter how many newspapers were in the pound weight or in each pound weight. That I think it will be admitted is a fairly low rate, and in fact starting with such a late was really the foregoing of a good deal of revenue which might otherwise have been derived from that source. Well, if I assent to the principle of the advisability of adopting cheap postage, it having been already adopted, I might be taken to assent to making a further reduction which I think at the present time is not within our power.

Of course the inference would be supported by the second part of the resolution, which says:-

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This Conference approves of a policy looking to a substantial "reduction in the rate, leaving it to each Government to determine the

amount to which it may reduce its outgoing rate."

Substantial reduction in the rates that description, as applied to the whole of the Governments concerned, would, I consider, not be desirable nor is it necessary, and the scope of the resolution seems to be so wide as to apply itself to those which have a sufficiently low rate to make unnecessary the affir- mation that it is desirable to make a reduction. If the principle of low rates were laid down in the resolution as a principle with a recommendation to endeavour to assimilate these rates as far as possible, it might get over the difficulty.

Sir WILLIAM MULOCK: The resolution does not deal with domestic rates at all. The resolution deals with rates between all parts of the Empire. That is fixed now by the terms of the Universal Postal Union at eight halfpennies, that is 4d. per 1 lb. It is not a rate we wish to see maintained and if you are in favour of a penny per 1 lb. in Australia, I presume you are not in favour of maintaining as high a rate as 4d. per lb. between Aŭstralis and the United Kingdom.

Sir

Sir EDMUND BARTON: Not at all.

Sir WILLIAM MULOCK: You are in favour of the resolution to reduce

We are not dealing with the inter- Imperial rate.

that.

•

Mr. SEDDON: I think it goes without saying, sir, that New Zealand being the first to give the universal penny post would be entirely with this proposal to reduce the rates of postage on newspapers between the Colonies and the Mother Country and the Mother Country and the Colonies. The more newspapers, in my opinion, we have circulated amongst ourselves, the closer will be the peoples. I know our newspaper proprietors, and more particularly the weekly papers and the illustrated papers, think that if we had the papers sent here to the Mother Country at a less rate of postage there would be a very large circulation. On the other hand, the postage bars to a great extent the circulation of the illustrated and other home papers to the people of the Colony, and anything done in the direction of enlarging the circulation of that class of literature in my opinion does good; and even supposing it did sacrifice a million of money to give a reduction to the Mother Country, that is the local circulation, I consider myself that it is not lost at all. Indirectly they are more than compensated. Of course, it is purely a fiscal question and political, not so much departmental, but on the principle that we have laid down and on which we all agree about anything that will tend to bring about a better condition of things, I think it ought to

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be tried. I know we in New Zealand are quite prepared for some sacrifice of the revenue to mako that saorifico, but in asking the Mother Country to reciprocate we are doing what we conceive to be in the best interests of the Empire. I am in favour of the reciprocal principle, and I think myself we are in respect thereto all agreed.

The SECRETARY OF STATE: The economical difficulty of the Post Office might be overcome, might it not, if you were to substitute a definite subsidy for a rate per pound?

Sir GEORGE MURRAY: That would affect the matter that is carried vià the United States. There is still the direct route to Canada, of course.

The SECRETARY OF STATE : Yes, but there also in making fresh contracts it would be possible, if it were thought otherwise desirable, to substitute fixed subsidies for the one pound rate.

Sir GEORGE MURRAY: Yes; but the subsidy for the direct route to Canada is paid by Canada. We only pay her a certain rate per pound.

The SECRETARY OF STATE: You might possibly then, if Canada requires a change of this kind, which political on its merits I think is important, an arrangement with the Canadian Post Office to substitute for your payment to them per one pound a fixed payment or something of that kind.

Sir GEORGE MURRAY: We should still have to face the difficulty that we should be giving a lower rate to Canada than we do to our own people. It is now a uniform rate to both. If we lowor it to Canada of course wo should have to lower it here.

The SECRETARY OF STATE I see we have in view quite a different object. The object in improving communications with different parts of the Empire is to promote the unity of the Empire. That object does not exist in the case of a purely domestic postal rate.

Sir GEORGE MURRAY: No, but still I think it would not be possible to resist the demand which would be made at home if we were giving a reduced rate to Canada and other parts of the Empire.

Sir WILFRID LAURIER: Would the difficulty be met by the latter part

of the Resolution which says: "leaving it to each Government to determine the amount to which it may reduce that. That would not bind you anything definite; it rather encourages the sliding scale of, say, equitable rates all over. and America also. It does not bind you to anything definite, but the resolution would suggest as follows :—

"It is advisable to adopt the principle of cheap postage between "different parts of the British Empire on all newspapers and periodicals "published therein, and that therefore this Conference approves of a

policy looking to a substantial reduction in the outgoing rate -and so far agree to this.

Sir GEORGE MURRAY: A reduction ?

"

Sir WILFRID LAURIER: Yes, with this qualification-leaving it to the Government to determine the amount to which it reduces such rate.

Sir GEORGE MURRAY: Yes; but the resolution in that form commits us to reduction; and that, as I have pointed out, involves a reduction in our domestic rate also.

Sir WILFRID LAURIER: Yes, exactly it does; but leaving it to you to determine how far you can go. Perhaps you can go to some extent in that direction.

E. 11520.

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