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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

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TUTI C.O. 885

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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

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assist us to some better sources of supply before we drew any hard and fast line in any way closing up with Australia. Whether he communicated with ministers or not do not know, but at all events he communicated with the authorities there and he put us in the way of making some fresh contracts, but I do believe, not to make a long story of it, from the best information I can get, that we have pretty well pumped out Australia-Ï dỡ not know that we have New Zealand-for the class of horse that we require, and it would not be surprising if we had done so, seeing of course that all the horses taken were horses which were used for other

purposes.

*Sir EDMUND BARTON: You wanted a class of horse that there had been no encouragement to breed up to that time.

The SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR: Quite. Well then, when we come to our difficulty with regard to annual contracts of course what has been said with regard to giving further information and stating our ordinary requirements, that very obviously could be, done, but as I stated in the House of Commons last night our normal requirements are really too small to enable us to make a market. Wo only require from 2,000 to 2.500 horses for the army a year-a normal year. That is practically nothing. We could got the whole lot in Ireland alone. To attempt to spread them over Canada, Australia, and South Africa, would really make so small a matter as to make it hardly worth the while of breeders to consider, and although Lord Stanley has been engaged on a consideration to what extent we could establish some sort of touch with colonial producers in time of peace it is most difficult subject simply for lack of proper employment to give them.

Mr. SEDDON : Could you not get your horses for India from Australasia?

The SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR: We get horses for India there. Does Now Zealand supply no horses for India?

Mr. SEDDON; Oh yes, but they go privately; private speculators buy them in New Zealand and then sell them to the authorities in India.

The SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR: We should confer with the India Office, and see whether it is possible by clubbing together our requirements whether we could make some more general arrangement.

Şir EDMUND BARTON: Would you answer this question, whether the remount stations, the breeding stations in India, are any, of them supported by Government, or are they run on private lines?

The SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR: Yes. That is a big question. I do not know really which you favour.

Şir EDMUND BARTON: I have got the idea, from that very valuable Blue Book containing all the pictures, that some of these stations are supported by Government.

The SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR: Yes; but at present you have nothing supported in England. The Government of India simply buys in the market, does it not?

Lord STANLEY: Yes.

Sir EDMUND BARTON: As far as Australia is concerned.

The SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR: We will confer with the India Offico.

Sir EDMUND BARTON: The question is this: there are British or Indian Government establishments in luda for breeding remounts; aro there any in Australia ?

Lord STANLEY: Ob, no

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Sir EDMUND BARTON: That is what Mr. Brodrick means.

The SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR: Then just one moment us to Canada. 1 fully hope that we may be able to keep in touch with the Canadian market in various respects; but I may say, in return, I hope we shall have great support from the Canadian Ministers.

We have had very great difliculty about some of these Canadian contracts. I conferred with one or two gentlemen who came over here on behalf of the Government, and they admit in certain contracts they have themselves not been satisfied with the way in which they have been carried out. On the other hand, they demur rather to the inspection in South Africa and the rejection of some supplies.

Sir WILFRID LAURIER: Not horses ?

Sir FREDERICK BORDEN: Hay.

The SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR: We have had questions as to hay; we have had questions as to canned meat on which I think in the end it was admitted that there was more on our side than was admitted originally, and we had a question also of oats. There was some unfortunate clashing with regard to the purchasing of horses between our remount officers and those purchasing them for contingents. I believe there is no question but some of the horses rejected by our remount officers were purchased afterwards for contingents at higher prices.

Sir WILFRID LAURIER: I have heard the reverse said. My im- pression was the reverse.

Sir FREDERICK BORDEN: I dispute that.

The SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR: I was only going to say that I think in these contracts in future the two parties must work together, because it is very undesirable that there should be this sort of friction; and there has been a certain amount of friction about those contracts which it is

my great object to endeavour to avoid. But speaking generally with regard to giving a proper time we will see that there is time in which these contracts can be considered. With regard to the form of tender, we will endeavour to make it such as is most convenient to Colonies to accede to, and without pledging myself that we will give any particular percentage of advantage to the Colonies, within a reasonable limit we shall of course prefer Colonial to any other products. More than that I can hardly be expected to say.

With regard to the spirit of the resolution we are entirely in favour of it.

The SECRETARY OF STATE: Will Mr. Arnold Forster, as representing the Admiralty, make a statement?

Mr. ARNOLD FORSTER: I can state exactly how we stand with regard to Admiralty contracts for Colonial products. Practically there are three classes of articles largely or to some extent used by the Navy-meat, coal, and a small quantity of nickel. The meat is divided into three classes-the fresh meat, the salt meat, and the canned meat. 'The fresh meat used in the Mediterranean stations at Gibraltar__and_Malta is to a large extent chilled, and we have stipulated that all that chilled meat shall be Australian meat, and so it is. The salt beef is a diminishing supply in the Navy. It is being replaced by the chilled meat and by the canned meat. We have made attempts to obtain salt beef in casks from Canada, and we are trying now an experiment with Canadian packed pork; we have not yet received any satisfactory consignment of salt cask beef from Australia or New Zealand, and we are not yet aware that any has been successfully brought through the tropics. This is not a very important branch of our supply, because it is, as Bay, giving way to the chilled meat and the canned meat. The principal item of supply from the Colonics is the canned meat, and we give very large orders for it. We have eight Australian firms upon the list-two Canadian and five American firms. The amount which is purchased for this country

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