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And I may ask the question, do other nations do it? Does Germany go outside herself for her supplies? Does France go outside herself? Well, I am informed that they do not. If that is the case I think it is a very good lesson for us to take to heart, and I am satisfied myself that where it was possible to obtain the supplies, I question very much whether these other nations would go outside themselves.

The third point is whether or not we can furnish a sufficient supply. I am pretty well satisfied myself that we could. If at the present time, so far as Australia is concerned, they might have to cut it short for a little time, Fam satisfied myself that if the Colonies knew that there were orders of this sort they would be able to meet the wants and requirements of the Army and Navy with respect to meat and produce. I only thought it would save us if we had for our surplus this market, it would prevent what has been an almost ruinous competition with those foreign nations who are in the same market as ourselves here in the Mother Country and in other markets. I come now to this question of remounts which appears on the paper.

It may be that, as regards the price of horses, we have not supplied as cheaply as they were supplied by other countries, but I think it will be shown, if you take the work that has been done by the horses supplied by the Australasian Colonies, they were cheaper in the long run. Our New Zealand horses especially, I believe, have in respect of work done proved very valuable and worth more than those obtained from foreign countries and from the Mother Country. Then I put it again that in regard to this matter wo were able at this time to get horses for South Africa, as we have no conflict with other countries. Complications may arise in which we may not be able to get horses or supplies of cattle. or meats, and therefore,,under the circumstances, it is advisable to be independent in case any such contingency might arise. The Colonies, in my opinion, should breed for remount purposes. We in New Zealand are going into it whether we get any market at home or not, and I have no doubt that Australia, which is a country eminently fitted for breeding remounts, would do the same. It is a question of laying down the principle first whether or not, if we prepare for meeting the demand, we may anticipate fair consideration at the hands of the Imperial Government. Under these circumstances I shall support the resolution proposed by the Prime Minister of the Commonwealth.

The SECRETARY OF STATE: Before anyone else speaks upon the subject, may I ask a question? The resolution as it stands appears to apply entirely to the contracts made by the Imperial Government. Is it intended to be reciprocal? Is it, for instance, proposed that a Government contract in Canada, in New Zealand or Australia, is to be subjected to the same conditions and to be upon the same terins?

Sir EDMUND BARTON: In the first place, Mr. Chamberlain, I should say with regard to your question, that there would be a very strong tendoncy to deal with the United Kingdom in preference to other.countries, apart from those who are able to supply us in our own country. But I am not clear that your question covers the whole ground, for this reason, that the Colonies place duties on a larger number of articles than Britain. To give preferences on goods the subject of these tariffs is a total impossibility in the case of Great Britain, who does not tax them, and therefore she would have to seek some other means in which to give reciprocal treatment to the Colonies for their Customs concessions. In that case, however, there are ways outside the tariff in which Great Britain could extend us reciprocal treatment. This is one of them. Stamp charges on Colonial Bonds might be another, but I submit that the whole ground of reciprocity is not covered by the tariff. Otherwise, if we were dealing with this matter at all in the sense of a business bargain, then as tariff matters now stand the reciprocal treatment that Great Britain could give would only be infinitesimal compared with the relative sacrifice of revenue that the Colonies would have to make in order to carry out their own tariff concessions. So I submit the whole ground is not covered by the consideration you have raised, because the area of reciprocity is wider than that of tariffs or of Army and Navy Supply contracts, if either class is taken separately. You could not give us substantial preference on the one and we could not reciprocate on the other.

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Sir WILFRID LAURIER: The way, Mr. Chamberlain, is this. resolution is confined only to war supplies and the Colonies would have very little opportunity of offering contracts of that nature, and therefore I do not think the question put by Mr. Chamberlain would be likely to arise, but on general principles I would be disposed to say this: there would be no objection at all, and that if the Government is to try and get supplies where it can from its own people, it would be natural that it should give them the preference, but if the Government has to go out of its own territory to get those supplies which it cannot get within its own territory, then, what I submit is, that if the Colonies can be considered in preference to a country abroad, if you can get as good an article from your Colonies as you can get in foreign countries, you would give the preference, I am sure, to the Colonies, rather than go abroad. Also, in all the Colonies represented here, if they could not get their supplies within their own territories, they would give the preference cortainly to the United Kingdom rather than to a foreign country. To summarise the whole thing, 1. think the tendency is, or ought to be at all events, that, so far as possible, internal trade ought to be encouraged, and that would be one officient form of doing it.

Mr. SEDDON: I may say, speaking for New Zealand, wo hold the same view, and I may say, with rogard to the wide range of supplies for the Now Zealand Government, we have endeavoured on each and every occasion to obtain contracts from the Mother Country. We are quite prepared to con- tinue that courso, not to get outside that which can be supplied within ourselves. With respect to reciprocity in regard to supplies for our Army and Navy in New Zealand certainly we should obtain the supplies from the Mother Country.

Sir EDMUND BARTON: We get our supplies of arms, ammunition, and equipment from the Mother Country, except so far as we obtain them from local people.

Mr. SEDDON: I do not think we have gone outside. We have not done as the Mother Country has done, we have not bought what was required for our forces outside the Colony, or at least outside the Empire. "Speaking' broadly on the question asked by the Secretary of State may I say that this resolution deals simply with the meat contract, and I introduced the question of remounts. I say, at all events, so far as we can we shall rociprocate.

The SECRETARY OF STATE: I think the principle applies equally to Government contracts which are not intended for the Army and Navy service. If it be dosirable to keep trade within the Empire, as I think it is, it applies equally of course to any country and to any Government

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Mr. FULLER: Perhaps, Mr. Chamberlain, I may be allowed to state the practice of the Cape Colony. We are very large buyers, perhaps our purchases in the way of railway plant and other things amount to botween 3,000,000l. and 4,000,000l. in the year, and our invariable practice is to give preference to British tenderers, evon to the extent of 10 or 15 per cent. If there was a Continental tender equal to the English tender, other things' being equal, the English tender would be accepted. If the English tender were 10 or 12 per cent. more, other things being equal, the British tender would be accepted; but in certain cases where it made a difference in some descriptions of railway plant of 30 or 40 per cent. occasionally the orders have been placed on the Continent, but I may say that as a matter of fact at least nine-tenths of all our contracts and orders are placed with English firms; that is the practice in the Cape.

Sir EDMUND BARTON: One word of explanation I would like to add. Of course, it is impossible for the Government of the Commonwealth in anything which may be added to this resolution to bind the Governments of the six separate States, each of which keeps in its own hands the contracts for railway construction and maintenance, and to a very large extent other public works also remain in the hands of the individual States, therefore T 3

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