CO885-(7-8) — Page 647

175

PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

Reference:

C.O. 885

8

ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC, COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH—NOT TO

PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

14

140

"different parts of the Empire should be reviewed by the representatives of the respective Governments, and that where necessary to meet foreign competition the character of the services should be improved "and the subsidies increased.

41

In all such cases provisions should be inserted in the contracts to prevent excessive freight charges, or any preference in favour of foreigners."

Mr. SEDDON: I would suggest instead of the words: "and that where necessary to meet foreign competition the character of the services should be improved and the subsidies increased," the following words: and to such of the steamers as may be suitable shall be at the service of "His Majesty's Government, to be fitted and used in time of war as "cruisers.' There can be no objection to that, I think.

The SECRETARY OF STATE: Will you give me your words, Mr. Seddon? I do not think there can be any harm in them.

Mr. SEDDON: The Admiralty, I believe, recommended it and are in favour of it.

Sir WILFRID LAURIER: There is no harm at all in them.

Mr. FIELDING: In the more important services I think Mr. Seddon's amendment would certainly be wise and necessary, but there may be some minor services where you could not expect the ships to comply with the conditions to bring them up to the Admiralty standard. It would involve a very large expense, which would not be necessary for the character of the service involved; but in regard to the important mail services, it would be advisable. If you make it too general it would have to apply to the small services where it would be altogether unsuitable.

up

Sir EDMUND BARTON: This would not make it a condition that the ships should be

to the Admiralty requirements; it would leave the matter open to the Admiralty to accept a ship or not; it would then have to come up to the Admiralty requirements.

The SECRETARY OF STATE: “And that such of the steamers as may be suitable shall be at the service of His Majesty's Government în war time as cruisers."

64

Bir EDMUND BARTON: I would suggest one slight alteration here. The first part of the draft resolution reads thus at the end" And that where necessary to meet foreign competition the character of the services should be improved and the subsidies increased." I think the resolution in that form may give rise to an expectation that in all cases subsidies might be increased. It might be considered that the resolution went a little further than it is necessary to go, and a very slight alteration would meet the case if it were made to read in this way" And that where necessary to meet foreign competition the character of the services should be improved and "the subsidies, where necessary, increased." I think, perhaps, it would then be in a safer form. It looks now too much as a matter of course that subsidies would be increased. I know cases of mail services where, I think, the companies do quite well enough out of their present subsidies, and give s very inadequate service for the money.

The SECRETARY OF STATE: If we were to subsidise freight vessels there would be a great opposition on the part of the shipping trade to anything of that kind.

Sir EDMUND BARTON: Then I suggest after the word "subsidies" the insertion of the words “where necessary in the last line but two.

141

Sir ALBERT HIME: May I ask what the foreign competition is? There

18 no foreign competition for our mail service. Of course freight follows the mail service?

Sir EDMUND BARTON: There is foreign competition in some cases, although it may be by a different route.

Sir ALBERT HIME: Not for mail service.

Mr. SEDDON: None of the present service is by foreign-owned steamers.

The SECRETARY OF STATE: Is it necessary to add those words at all? Could we not stop by saying that they should be reviewed by their respective Governments?

Sir EDMUND BARTON: I think that would be better still.

The SECRETARY OF STATE: There is sufficient indication, because we say, to begin with, "that in view of the great extension of foreign "subsidies to shipping, the position of the mail services between different

44

parts of the Empire should be reviewed by the representatives of the respective Governments."

Sir ALBERT HIME: Of course the object, sir, is to give us some advan- tage in competing for the freights-competing for the cargoes.

The PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD OF TRADE: I greatly prefer the resolution in that form. We have a Committee now sitting in the House of Commons on Subsidies. What they will come to I do not know; but if you merely call attention to the subject it will leave us free to deal with it as we may think best.

The SECRETARY OF STATE: Then it would read in this way:-

66

AC

That it is desirable that in view of the great extension of foreign subsidies to shipping, the position of the mail services between different parts of the Empire should be reviewed by the respective "Governments.

66

"In all new contracts provisions should be inserted to prevent "excessive freight charges, or any preference in favour of foreigners; " and to ensure that such of the steamers as may be suitable shall be "at the service of His Majesty's Government in war time as cruisers or

transports.'

11

The resolution was put to the Conference and carried unanimously.

COURT OF APPEAL.

The SECRETARY OF STATE: Then I think the next question is as to the Court of Appeal, Sir Edmund Barton; are you ready to go on with that?

• ཀ

Sir EDMUND BARTON: I have to say about that, Mr. Chamberlain-it will be in everybody's memory—that a Conference was held on the subject, summoned last year, in which the Commonwealth was represented by Mr. Justice Hodges, of Victoria. I, of course, do not deny that the subject received a great deal of consideration, and it must be admitted that the resolutions of the Conference do not amount to any practical alteration in the present system. I retain the opinions expressed on behalf of the Commonwealth Government by Mr. Justice Hodges, and I fully endorse the arguments which he used on that occasion; but it does seem to me that unless there is a greater disposition than there was then to support the project of one Imperial Court

$3 .