CO885-(7-8) — Page 587

PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

Reference :-

C.O. 885

PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE | COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC-

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transport. The Imperial Government provides an amount, which I think is 51. per head annually, which is allowed to those who are enrolled, the conditions being that those enrolled are for the service of the Empire, wherever it is desired to send them. In Australia they have what is known as a partly paid force. The capitation grant, I think, is the same as is paid to the men in Newfoundland? Whether they could, under existing conditions, be

I sent outside the Commonwealth, is a matter of doubt.

may say that the question was raised when we were onrolling members of the contingents, and we were advised in New Zealand that there must be an agreement in cach-case; that we could pass a law applicable within the Colony, but outside the Colony our power is limited; that that could only be done by the Imperial Legislature. However, the matter was got over by an agreement being entered into. Now, it would appear to me that we ought to take advantage of the existing conditions, to enrol a permanent force in each of the self-governing colonies, whose services would be available in such parts of the Empire as might be agreed upon between the Imperial authorities and the Colonial Governments. I take it that the returned members of the contingents would form the nucleus of these reserves. I take it that the men themselves would I do not be very pleased to continue as members of an Imperial reserve. think they will go back to volunteer corps, or continue service simply as I believe volunteers, but I believe they would form part of those reserves. that at the present time, while the feeling is warm, that a movement such as this would be acceptable to the people in the self-governing Colonios.

This brings me, of course to the important part, that of general detence. I may say that one of the great difficulties in all self-governing Colonies in respect to defence, has been the finding of the capital required for equipment and for harbour defence. As you are aware, a very large amount of money has been voted for rifles, and objection has been taken to that being continued. If some meaus could be evolved for getting over that difficulty, the question of the maintenance or renewal-I think there would not be the same demur from the Colonial Parliaments. I might give you cases which bear out what I am saying. At the last Conference, there was a gift of a line of battleship, presented by the Cape Colony to the Mother Country, and later on, and on reflection, the Cape authorities came to the conclusion that it would be better to pay an amount-an annual amount for the maintenance, and save themselves the finding of the capital amount required to pay for a cruiser. That simply demonstrates the position of the Colonies in hesitating to increase their indebtedness, so it is impossible, with the wlaims now upon us, to take it from current expenditure. In this case, even supposing the Colonies wero to pay the interest on the moneys found for this purpose, it would be a big saving to the Colonies, because the Imperial authorities obtain their money at a much less rate of interest, and, as I say, it could be done either by Imperial guarantee of the moneys required, or it could be done by the Imperial authorities making it a condition that the Colonies pay the interest,

Now on this, further I may say, and speaking as the Defence Minister of the Colony of New Zealand, the defect in respect to our land forces is the want of the necessary batteries of field artillery. I think we have only one battery, one up-to-date battery in the Colony at the present time, and the war in South Africa has demonstrated the absolute necessity there is for a thorough up-to- date equipment in this respect. Not only that, but we shall also require heavier guns which have proved so serviceable. I speak, of course, for my own Colony, and I think probably other Colonics will say in the same way that we are not equipped in a proper way, and if we were to ask our respective Parliaments, at least I know, speaking for New Zealand, if you wore to ask the Parliament to provide the necessary amounts required you would be immediately. faced with a difficulty probably as a result, and the imperfect conditions now existing would continue.

Coming to the naval side of the question, I would say at once, speaking for New Zealand, that I repudiate any idea of providing or setting up a navy or the purchase of ships for ourselves. The conclusion that we have arrived at. and I do not think there is the slightest chance of it being modified, is that. we must depend alone upon the Imperial Navy. This providing of vessels anu men-of-war from Colonies has been tried, and you have an object lesson in

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Victoria at the present time in the gunboat * Cerberns," and I think there was another Colony that sell a boat to China during the recent crisis there, which was also an object lesson, when you contrast the battleship of to-day with the South Australian cruiser. For that purpose of contrast it was right enough. The question of expense would be unwarranted under these conditions. I say at once, then, speaking, of course, for the Colony of New Zealand, that we are not going to attempt in any way, shape, or form, to build or buy men-of-war for ourselves. As to forming a naval reserve manned from the Colonies to mau the cruisers that you propose to keep in reserve, I look upon that as being an absolute necessity. The time which would be lost, the difficulty encountered, would enforce anyone who has considered the question to come to the conclusion that we ought to have in these Colonies men who could man these vessels. I may say that we have our naval volunteer corps attached to our principal ports, and they are well trained. That has been demonstrated, and referred to with great pleasure by the Admirals in charge of the station; but there is more required in this respect. When the cruisers belonging to the squadron are in the Colonial harbours, I think arrangements should be made to take your naval brigade men—the officers and men of naval brigades—and train them on these men-ol- Of course, if necessity arose, and men were wanted, we would know where we could get them, and I believe, although they belonged to the volunteer corps only, in case of necessity you would find the volunteering for sea service just as we had the men volunteering for South Africa. In this respect ! apply the same argument, would it be better to have men on reserve, trained stokers, seamen and gunners whom you could depend upon and call upon to meet the emergency, and who should be trained in the Colony for the purpose. I therefore say that the resolution was framed with that intention, and I hope it carried the intention, of meeting the difficulty, both with respect to the land force, and also-in respect to the naval force. There would be no cost in respect to the naval force for equipment; the Colonies, as far as we have gone, have the means of training with guns on shore, but we lack the training on board ship, which is essential. In that respect 1 have pointed out that something should be done with the cruisers, when they are in the harbours, to meet this difficulty, and I believe that when the men were attending to this training the Colonies would pay them the difference between what is paid by the Imperial authorities and what men would require before they would enrol for service.

war.

Now, then, I come to the question which was raised by Mr. Chamberlain the other day which no doubt underlies what has fallen from Lord Selborne. and that is the general contribution by the Colonies to the Imperial navy for the maintenance of the Imperial Government. I think we should, in respect to this very important question, state explicitly what probabilities there are of the respective self-governing Colonies so contributing. Lord Selborne has referred to the fact that we have the agreement in respect to the Australian squadron. Although not holding a responsible position at the time in 1887. yet I took a great interest in the matter, and I could state clearly what was the moving spirit which caused the agreement to be made. It was felt at the time that there was a weakness in respect to the naval defence of Australia and New Zealand. There was a necessity to strengthen the naval force in that part of the Empire, and the result was the agreement that has now been referred to. I may say that I have a note in reference here to the memorandum prepared by the Admiralty that the words included now, ai least, suggested now, I believe, would have been agreed to at the time, namely. that the men-of-war should be stationed there and kept there in the time of pesce. I do not think myself that if that had been suggested at the time there would have been the slightest objection to the inclusion of those words. But in time of peace they desire for many reasons that the ships of the squadron should be kept in Australian and New Zealand waters. First of all, I say, there is the sentiment to have the vessels and the men-of-war coming into the harbours brought before the notice of the people, and the people allowed to visit as they do, and every opportunity given. It keeps up our national sentiment, and it is a good thing to have. New Zealand, it would appear from the terms of the agreement, was a little exacting at that time because we stipulated that there should be at least two cruisers always C4

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