CO885-(6-7) — Page 514

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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

Reference :-

C.O. 885

INVESTMENT OF TRUST FUNDS.

NEW HEBRIDES.

158

Mr. Kingston. Upon land, no; your local taxes here, they tell me, amount to something about 33 per cent. of the rental value, 33.

The Secretary of State.] In the towns, not in the country

Mr. Kingston.] In and about.

The Secretary of State.] Not agricultural land?

?

Mr. Kingston.] It would run in the suburbs to one-third of the rent.

The Secretary of State.] In London it is one-third, yes, and in Birmingham and places of that kind.

Mr. Kingston.] Yes.

The Secretary of State.] That is for the towns, that is really municipal taxation, but the land taxation and the taxation in the country for all local much less than that. I think it is about 28. very purposes

is

The Secretary.] Yes, I think it is a little over 2s., it is very little.

Mr. Kingston.] Our local rates are very small, I think they average only a little over about 18., the land tax on the unimproved value is only d. in the £ with another d. over 5,000l., and the absentee tax is not to be spoken of seeing that it is only 20 per cent. addition on the ordinary land tax which excludes all improvements.

Mr. Seddon.] Well, I ask that my resolution may be put, Mr. Chamberlain.

NEW HEBRIDES.

The Secretary of State.] As soon as I get it I will see to it, meanwhile I should just like to call the attention of the Premiers to this question of the New Hebrides. The New Hebrides question has now been raised by the proposal of the French Government to discuss a definite settlement of all matters connected with the group, including convict settlements and adminis- tration. This proposal has been made as an alternative to our suggestion pressed upon them repeatedly and as strongly as possible that they should apply to French citizens the same restrictions as to the sale of arms, ammu- nition, and liquor to the natives of the group as are applied to British subjects. By the joint declarations Great Britain and France have bound themselves not to annex these Islands, and a joint naval jurisdiction has been established to deal with cases of disturbances there. The restrictions imposed on British subjects places them at a serious disadvantage as compared with French citizens, as arms and liquor are what the native most desires, and we have had constant pressure especially from Victoria to get us to have the French put under the same restrictions. There is no chance of this being done, and equally Parliament here would not listen to any proposal to remove the restrictions on British subjects. The joint arrangement does not work well, as of course it is not administration but spasmodic punishment of outrages, and quelling of disturbances that it provides for. The French land claims and purchases in the group far exceed ours. The company to which most of the French interests belong is subsidized to the extent of 300,000 francs a year by the French Government which has a controlling interest in its management. But the trade of the group as distinct from European planting and production is mainly in the bands of Australian firms. The question for the Australians to decide is, do they wish to go on as they are, or do they wish us to embark on negotiations for partition, and if so what partition would they accept. Further, if a partition is made will they provide the cost of administration. Those are the points. It is quite impossible, of course, for us under the circumstances in which we are placed to annex the whole of the group because we are under distinct treaty obligations not to do so, and the only question is whether we should enter into negotiations with the French Government.

Sir John Forrest.] Could we not enter into a bargain to get the whole? Sir Hugh Nelson.] Either get the whole or sell it.

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Mr. Kingston.] Oh, sell it, no! Mr. Seddon.] What is as important at the present time as far as Australasia is concerned is the Hawaiian question. It is very necessary that we should watch the events closely, I think every opportunity should be embraced by the Imperial authorities of increasing, and solidifying, and strengthening their position. I think myself that what is going on with regard to the Hawaiin Islands is a matter for great concern, and something ought to be done. In regard to the Solomon group also there is necessity for review there, and there is an opportunity now which ought to be taken. If we miss in this respect with the French Government, and they prefer to clear out, and we get them away all the better, because we find that they are aggressive in many respects, and I will not say "aggressive," but they are annoying in these different islands. They start with missions, and the next thing they get is commerce, and the next thing is up goes the French flag. Other nations are active there in respect to these islands, and ultimately it will mean a very large expense to the mother country which would be avoided, and would have been avoided if she had been alert years ago. There was a time when there was hardly a Frenchman to be met there, and repeatedly the Premiers in Australia have directed attention to their activity. We do not want to disclose too much, but the more anxious we appear to be and the more anxious the mother country appears to be the more valuable these islands, and the island position becomes in the eyes of the other nations. The mother country could prevent the trouble which must ultimately arise if these foreign nations are allowed to increase and extend their position in the islands.

The Secretary of State.] But Mr. Seddon, I want to deal with this practically. Mr. Seddon.] Yes.

The Secretary of State.] Of course if these islands were open it might be easy to advise that we should annex them. We cannot do that because we have made treaties which absolutely prevent it. We are only in a position to negotiate. If you think we should negotiate we can either keep up the present state of things which is unsatisfactory, or if you prefer it we can enter upon a negotiation for partition. In that case, as the interest is not an Imperial interest at all, it does not really concern us; it is almost entirely on your behalf that we are interested in the matter; we should like to know what The French will not clear partition you would consider a satisfactory one. out; they are not given to that at all, and we have nothing to offer them; we cannot offer them anything in return for clearing out, and therefore it will have to be an agreement to partition the islands between the French and the English. If you think that such a partition could be made, let us know what islands you think we ought to keep, and what we might safely offer to the French. We of course should be prepared to negotiate on those

terms.

Mr Kingston.] Would it be possible to buy them out?

Sir Hugh Nelson.] It is a pity Victoria is not represented as they have more interest in the matter than anyone else, but Sir George Turner has gone.

The Secretary of State.] He has gone, but would the Australian Colonies be prepared to make an offer of money for these islands?

Mr. Kingston.] I do not know; that would depend again on terms.

Mr. Seddon.] There has been a laxity on the part of the Imperial authorities in regard to these islands. We had to step in with the Raratonga to appoint an agent at that time. At that time we were on the point of giving away those islands.

The Secretary of State.] You must not say that without remembering that after all we have a great deal on our shoulders. We might have had the whole of Africa 20 years ago, and many people abuse us for not taking possession of a great part which is now in the hands of France and of We have to look to the Germany. But we cannot have the whole world.

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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

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