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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

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C.O. 885

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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH—NOT TO BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC-

POLITICAL RELATIONS.

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express an opinion then, that so long as the Australian Colonies were not federated, perhaps it would be difficult to come to any scheme at all which would be found to be practicable. I do not know what the views of my. colleagues at this board are upon that subject; I can only repeat what I said upon this subject the other day.

The Secretary of State.] What is your view, Mr. Reid?

Mr. Reid. My view, sir, is this, that I look upon the existing state of our relations as having automatically produced magnificent results. At the same time I am prepared to consider any project involving a change in those relations, but I have not yet seen any project which seems to me within the range of practical discussion at the present board.

Sir George Turner.] I think it is useless attempting to do anything in connexion with the matter until the Australian Colonies are federated.

Sir John Forrest.] Even then it would be difficult.

The Secretary of State.] As the matter has been referred to, would it be thought desirable that we should put that view in the form of an expression of opinion-I mean it being the opinion of the Premiers present that it is premature to discuss any change in the political relations until federation has been accomplished.

Sir John Forrest.] It involves a change, not only in our constitution, but in the British Constitution also.

The Secretary of State.] Undoubtedly it will require a special constitution ad hoc, but, of course, such a thing might proceed, as I suggested, gradually. It might, for instance, take this form; at the present moment you all send representatives here, the Agents-General. They are a sort of ambassadors from the Colonies to the mother country. I do not think that they bave large powers; they are not plenipotentiaries.

Sir John Forrest.] I do not suppose ambassadors have much either.

The Secretary of State.] Well, ambassadors very often are plenipotentiaries.

Sir John Forrest.] But they very often have instructions, as a rule.

The Secretary of State.] A treaty made by an ambassador has always to be ratified. That they do in every case. In the case of ambassadors they very often negotiate treaties which afterwards have only to be ratified to come into force. I do not think Agents-General have ever been intrusted with negotiations of great importance in that way. It might be possible, of course, -I am throwing out a suggestion-it might be possible for you to appoint either your Agents-General or gentlemen who could attend a council, who might be given larger powers, not legislative powers, but consultative powers; that would involve no alteration of constitution.

Sir John Forrest.] Would it do much good? that is the point. The Secretary of State.] It would be a step.

Mr. Reid. That would involve a number of very serious questions. collaterally, which would perhaps be more serious than the project itself.

The Secretary of State.] I think it would be a step not to be taken hastily. Sir Wilfrid Laurier.] At the present time everybody is satisfied with the relations as they are; that is one thing; but if the idea of unity is held to, it seems to me the first step of unity, is, wherever it is possible, to group together politically scattered colonies which are geographically united- grouping them together politically as well as geographically; that is one thing I look upon as a first step towards a solution of this question.

Mr. Kingston.] It seems to me a very important question, and one upon which we should not be doing our duty to you, if we did not speak with that candour which you invite. For my part I am inclined to think that it would be a very good thing to let well alone. The suggested tightening of the bonds means the creation of fresh political bonds. I would make

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bold to say that no demand whatever has been expressed for these in Australia, and certainly not in the Colony from which I come, and I am pretty confident that any attempt at anything of the sort would be productive of results absolutely opposed to what are desired. As regards the creation of a consultative council at present we have our Agents-General here, who, whenever directed by their respective Governments, consult on matters of common concern and represent Australian views to you. It is quite possible that as time goes on, the Governments themselves may find themselves in a position to utilise the services of the Agents-General in this way in a greater degree, and I am sure that the Colonial Office and the Imperial Government will not be embarrassed, but very considerably assisted, and I confess that I should like in some respects if there were more direct communications with the Australian Governments through the Agents-General from the Colonial Office than there is.

The Secretary of State.] Well, if there is not more, that, let me say, is not the fault of the Colonial Office. I mean it is not that there is any difficulty made to them here. This Office is always open to any of the Agents-General, or to the Agents-General combined, and there has been, I may say, the freest intercourse with us whenever they have desired to see me upon any subject.

Mr. Kingston.] What I meant was this, that in some matters on which the Government had found it necessary to communicate with the Colonial Office through Agents-General, the reply is sent through the Governor, ignoring the Agents-General in a mode which seems to me to put them in a rather awkward position. I have a case in my mind, to which I need not specially refer, where the Agent-General has been directing the attention of the Colonial Office to a special matter. The reply has been sent and made public through the Governor in South Australia before the Agent-General knew anything about it.

Mr. Reid.] Does the Government make this public in ways other than through the Ministers ?

Mr. Kingston.] It is made public in the natural course of affairs by the Governor communicating with his Ministers, but, at the same time, it is a little awkward that the Agent-General should have no knowledge of it until some time after it has been received in Adelaide.

Sir John Forrest.] Although he moved in the matter?

Mr. Kingston.] Although he moved in the matter. Of course he would a Minister the confidence of the Colonial respect to the same extent as Office.

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The Secretary of State.] To what case do you refer, Mr. Kingston?

Mr. Kingston.] I am referring specially to the case of an appointment in connexion with the Privy Council.

The Secretary of State.] An appointment in connexion with the Privy Council the appointment of a Chief Justice?

Mr. Kingston] Yes, and there are other matters.

The Secretary of State.] Well, that is an appointment by the Crown, and you must bear in mind that it would be still more awkward for our relations if the Governor were shunted. It is a matter which comes properly, I think, through the Governor as the representative of the Crown. I think the communication ought to go through the Governor, and we must be very careful not to ignore his position, or else we shall find it increasingly difficult to find gentlemen who will undertake so onerous a post.

Mr. Kingston.] I do not suggest that his position should be ignored. It is for all Australia. It did not deal with any particular Colony.

Mr. Reid.] It is not a South Australian appointment, although it is ventilated in that direction.

Mr. Kingston.] I think not, Mr. Reid.

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POLITICAL

RELATIONS.