CO885-(6-7) — Page 464

470

PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

Reference :-

C.O. 885

PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO |

NAVAL DEFENCE.

58

Sir E. N. C. Bruddon.] We are constantly asking the Imperial Govern- ment to protect more our interests in the l'acific, and it is by this fleet that that protection could best be effected.

Mr. Reid.] To any extension of the limits I am sure no Government could reasonably object. It is so essentially our own interest and our own business that no Government could be so unreasonable as to demur for a moment to any correction of the limit which would include all Australian interests, that is to say, of a local character.

Sir George Turner.] We do not want the vessels taken away altogether from Australia at the time they might be required to protect our Colonial

trade.

Mr. Reid.] That is the other side.

Sir George Turner.] That is the only thing we are afraid of.

Mr. Reid.] That is the other side, which we have not come to yet.

The Secretary of State.] I think that is a perfectly satisfactory statement, that is to say, if it be found in time of peace that the work of the fleet is unnecessarily restricted, so that it does not extend to all Australian interests, the Premiers will be very glad to consider any amendment which is required.

Mr. Reid.] Certainly; it is quite within the principle of what we have

done.

Mr. Kingston.] I am inclined to think that an application was made for an extension of the definition of the station some time back, and that was agreed to.

The Secretary.] Yes, that is so.

Sir John Forrest.] That was not very large.

Mr. Kingston.] No, not very large.

The Secretary of State.] There is the much larger question, which is, the use of the fleet, or the restrictions upon the use of the fleet, in time of war. That is a question of immense importance, but I think we cannot discuss it under existing circumstances. We must make a further application to the Admiralty; I have made an application to the Admiralty to have their views formally before us, and they must send us someone who can speak in their name and give us authoritatively what their view is. I will not trouble Captain Beaumont to attend

further. any

Sir Wilfrid Laurier.] I understood that the question was whether the Colonies would be prepared to contribute to the general fund for the protec tion of the Empire at large; that was the question before the Conference, as I understood it. I see by the answer of the Australian Colonies that they are ready to contribute for a force, provided it be applied to the protection of their own waters. I have not seen any answer yet from them to the more general question which you put forward as to whether or not the Colonies would be prepared at this moment to contribute to the defence of the Empire. The Secretary of State.] Yes, I think I would say the principle is this: We accept in the fullest possible way the obligation to defend the Colonies; but we think that it is to the advantage of the Colonies, as well as this country, that the mode and method of defence should be left to the naval authorities, that they should not be hampered by what I call political re- strictions in time of war, and that if they are so hampered it takes away all the value of the fleet, or the ships which may be provided by the Colonies. with That, I think, is the principle; but I do not feel that we can advantage discuss it further until we have some more authoritative information before us.

Mr. Kingston.] I do not know if you are taking it that all the Colonies would be prepared to agree to a renewal on the same lines, because I do not

59

think that that would be precisely the South Australian position. They would NAVAL DEFENCE. prefer that the Australian contribution were expended locally in the main- tenance of crews or reserves, whose services could be utilised on the fleet itself; that undoubtedly is the view of South Australia.

Sir George Turner.] On which fleet?

Mr. Kingston.] On this Australian squadron. That is undoubtedly the view of South Australia, and considerable attention has been given to the matter by our naval authorities, and I should be happy to forward for Imperial consideration their recommendations on the subject.

Sir John Forrest.] When is this agreement up-soon, is it not? Sir George Turner.] It has about two years yet to run.

Mr. Kingston.] And at present I take it that any extension of the objects of the squadron would alter altogether its character. The agreement which was come to in 1887 was for the establishment of a fleet for the protection of the floating trade in Australasian waters, and to that of course Australia has contributed at the rate of 5 per cent. on the prime cost of the vessels and practically the cost also of the maintenance of the fleet on a peace footing.

Sir John Forrest.] But there is a large fleet besides those two ships, you know.

Mr. Kingston.] Yes, but I mean that this is a special agreement with which we are dealing for a special purpose.

The Secretary of State] Then if you were once to argue it as though each Colony were to provide its own defence, where would Australia be? What kind of defence would Australia have for 120,000, a year; that is rather the question.

Mr. Kingston.] We spend more than 120,000 a year. The Secretary of State.] The fleet, I am speaking of.

Sir E. N. C. Braddon.] That is the contribution?

The Secretary of State.] That is the contribution for the fleet; the military defence is another matter altogether.

Sir George Turner.] But you defend other portions of the Colonial empire without a shilling; no other portions of the Colonial empire contribute a shilling for their own defence.

Sir Gordon Sprigg.] We go to large expense in looking after our own local ports.

Sir George Turner.] We do not deny that; we do all that in addition.

Mr. Harry Escombe.] Certainly, in that sense we look after our ports and leave the squadron free.

Mr. Kingston.] So do we.

The Secretary of State.] Many of the Crown Colonies contribute very large sums indeed to the provision of coaling stations and fortifying ports.

Sir George Turner.] We support all our fortifications. In Victoria we have spent about three millions of money on fortifications, and 200,0007. a year on our defence.

Sir Wilfrid Laurier.] The question put was this: Were the Colonies prepared to contribute to the general fund so much per cent., or any at all, for the maintenance of the fleet? I think I understood from Mr. Chamberlain that he had received an answer from Australia and South Africa, but not from Canada. So far as I can see, there has been no answer at all. There has been this answer only from the Australian Colonies, that they will provide the money for a particular purpose. That is not the thing What I understood was in your mind was a general contribution, that

at all.

H 2