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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE
Reference :-
TREEC.O. 885
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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON
ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH—NOT TO
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We would prefer to affirm a general proposition that we do look with no favour upon treaties which infringe the right of the self-governing Colonies to make their own fiscal arrangements, whether amongst themselves or with Great Britain or Ireland. Something of that sort; that is the sort of shape. We do not wish, I say frankly-
reference to the denunciation of these two treaties.
The Secretary of State.] Would you kindly put it into words; it is a question of drafting; I think we mean the same.
Mr. Reid.] We mean very much the same thing; but I rather shrink from seeming to put a certain degree of pressure upon Her Majesty's Government; I do not wish to do that; I express an opinion. I leave the responsible exercise of Imperial discretion to those who are charged with it; I am not charged with responsibility in these matters.
Would Sir George Turner.] Would the Imperial Government object? they not prefer it being forced upon them? Would they not rather welcome it? We know what our Government very often will do.
Mr. Reid.] Behind the Imperial Government is the Imperial Parliament and the whole British people, in fact, and I do not wish to put myself for- ward as pressing for something which may be inconvenient; I prefer to assume a more general attitude, which means practically the same thing.
Sir Wilfrid Laurier.] No; I would go further than that, Mr. Reid. It seems to me that the opinion is unanimous at this board that these treaties are a serious impediment to the colonial development. In the first place they are not in accordance with the well-known policy of the may British Empire at the present time; they are the remnants of what I call the barbarian time of the Colonial relations, a time that I think that the
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"denounced;" I years ago present Prime Minister, Lord Salisbury, some think that was a term which he used. Well, so far as I have been able to ascertain what the Colonies say is, that under such circumstances we should bring some pressure, not to bring really some pressure, but a very strong expression of opinion on the part of the Colonies so as to strengthen the hands of the Imperial Government, because no doubt there are some vested interests which may squeal if these treaties are denounced, and under such circumstances, unless we give a pretty decided view on the matter, I think we should debar ourselves from a prospect that we all look forward to and hope for, that the treaties would be denounced. All agree that the treaties, if made to-morrow, would not be made in that way; the Colonies would not be put in by force.
Mr. Kingston.] Would it not add strength, Mr. Chamberlain, to our conclusion if we preserve the continuity of the debate by reaffirming the Ottawa resolution, and asking that better effect might be given to it; say the Colonies have reconsidered the matter which they dealt with three years ago, and they are still of the same opinion. That would justify the more earnest pressure.
Sir Wilfrid Laurier.] Will you read it again, please.
Mr. Kingston.] The Ottawa resolution is this: "That this Conference is of opinion that any provisions in existing treaties between Great Britain and any foreign power which prevent the self-governing dependencies of the Empire from entering into agreements of commercial reciprocity with each other or with Great Britain, should be removed." If we were to reaffirm this, and earnestly ask that early effect might be given to it, would it not be putting it in a stronger position than if we passed a resolution which was not in terms connected with the Ottawa debate ?
Sir Wilfrid Laurier.] But they are the same thing practically; the same idea and the same thing.
Mr. Seddon.] The only thing in regard to that resolution I have to say is this: I cannot support the draft resolution which Mr. Chamberlain has submitted; it is simply this: We say in effect "as a
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quid pro quo for your denouncing the treaties we will favourably consider the proposals for giving preference to the mother country." Now we say that the denunciation of the treaties and the reasons to be given for that must stand on a firmer basis, and be shown as a benefit. The other question, as expressed by different Prime Ministers, should come separately and have no connection whatever with this; it is a bargain, and as I have said, there are other measures which we anticipate will be considered by the Imperial authorities, and we think will render us greater assistance, and that shows that improvement much more than the question of the denunciation of the treaties.
Sir Wilfrid Laurier.] Would you have any objection to separate the first part of this resolution which is as follows: "That the Premiers of the self- governing Colonies unanimously and earnestly recommend the denunciation, at the earliest convenient time, of the Belgian and German treaties which now hamper the commercial relations between Great Britain and her Colonies.'
Mr. Seddon.] Certainly not; I think we are all unanimous on that, and we can carry that as a separate and distinct resolution. I object to it being coupled with the other.
Sir E. N. C. Braddon.] That has been asked over and over again.
Sir Wilfrid Laurier.] I think you will agree with me it is important to put it strongly.
The Secretary of State.] Then, Mr. Seddon, shall I meet your view by putting it first. The first part separately, and alter the second part so as to make it a distinct resolution, omitting the words, "In the event of connection between it such denunciation," so that there should be no and the first part, merely a statement, a voluntary statement. The second part will then read: "The Premiers of Victoria, New Zealand, Cape Colony, Queensland, Tasmania, West Australia, and Natal will favourably consider proposals for giving a preference to the products of Great Britain."
Mr. Seddon.] I do not object to that so long as it is clear I prefer what
was done at the Ottawa conference as regards the denunciation.
Sir John Forrest.] Are we not all unanimous about it.
Sir Wilfrid Laurier.] It is practically the same thing in language.
Sir John Forrest.] Practically, it seems to me so far as I gather.
"
Sir George Turner.] It looks so pointed, it might give cause for offence. Better Bay
"all treaties.'
The Secretary of State.] Let us say
Of
treaties." any
Mr. Kingston.] With reference to what has fallen from Mr. Reid I take it no resolution emanating from the source it does, if carried, would in the slightest degree embarrass, but rather assist, the Government; in those circumstances I am perfectly prepared to vote for the first resolution. I was at some pains to define what position I thought I should be compelled to take as regards the other, and I see that has been emphasised by my exclusion from the second resolution, which I do not at all object to.
The Secretary of State.] You do not object.
exclusion. Mr. Kingston.] I do not object to my The Secretary of State.] I shall be only too glad to be allowed to add your
name.
Mr. Kingston.] I think you have very fairly interpreted my views on the subject, and it will relieve me of any anxiety if my exclusion be continued as proposed,
Mr. Seddon.] You might say the Premiers are unanimous in the first one. E 2
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