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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

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TTC.O. 885

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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

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that the matters are all matters upon which we cannot say that we all agree right off, but if the suggestion of Mr. Reid is adopted, then it is very likely that we shall be able to offer some practical suggestions later on.

I quite agree with the suggestion, and as far as our business is concerned I do not think we could do it better than by taking the various subjects in the order in which you, sir, have referred to them in your speech. I will not take up further time, but simply say that I quite agree with the expressions which have been given forth by the previous Premiers.

Sir Gordon Sprigg.] Many of the questions which have been mentioned at this Conference to-day are questions which have engaged the attention of public men in South Africa for the past 25 years. During the whole of that time federal union or confederation has been in the air, and various attempts have been made from time to time, without very much success; in fact, the only union effected there has been the Customs union between Cape Colony and the Orange Free State, which is in existence at the present time, and recently strengthened. To discuss this question generally opens up very many questions indeed in South Africa, because some of the states are foreign countries there. There is also a very important question amongst ourselves at the present time, and that is the administration

proper of the new country, Rhodesia. It has not yet been determined, as I under- stand, what is to be the form of government there. At present the administration is being carried on as nearly as possible on the lines of the administration of the Cape Colony; but the future is uncertain. With regard to these other questions, these commercial questions, I feel myself that there will be very great difficulty in carrying out much in that way in South Africa in the present condition of things, although, of course, I am quite ready to accede to the proposals which have been made, that the Premiers of the different Colonies should meet together to discuss the matter and see whether it is possible to hit upon some scheme which would include them all. I thought myself that it might be possible to consider the question of Imperial defence quite apart from these other matters, because it is more special in its character. With regard to the remarks which have been made as to Imperial land defence, I may say, in reply to the suggestion which has been made, that it should be an interchangeable land force, so that a regiment at the Cape could come here and an Imperial regiment could go to the Cape, that that is entirely impracticable looking to the work that has to be performed by the Cape regiment. There is no Imperial regiment. in England, that I am aware of, that could perform the duties imposed upon the Cape Mounted Riflemen. They perform special work, owing to the special circumstances of the country. We have an enormous, overwhelming, native population, and it is to control them that these Cape Mounted Riflemen are required in the country. They have a military character, but they have duties to perform such as are not performed, so far as I am aware, by any other regiment. I should think the duties are somewhat akin to those of the Royal Irish Constabulary, but it is impossible for the Royal Irish Constabulary to go to South Africa and interchange with the Cape Mounted Riflemen. These remarks having been made, I thought it neces- sary to point out that there was an initial difficulty in carrying out the suggestion as regards Cape Colony. With respect to the Navy, that appears to me to be very simple indeed. I would say at once, on the part of the Cape Colony, of course subject to the approval of the Legislature afterwards, which I do not doubt would be obtained, that I should be prepared to make a proposal to contribute a definite sum towards the cost of the Navy. What we feel there is that the Navy requires strengthening. You have so many ships at the present time, and if you have so many more ships in the Navy it would materially strengthen the position of the Empire. May I just put a case like this. Supposing, for instance, that the Cape Government should come forward and say that they would be prepared to give a sum of money to furnish an additional ironclad, say a million of money, the Cape would be prepared to accept the responsibility for that million of money. The most convenient form would be, perhaps, that Her Majesty's Government should raise the money, because they could raise the sum at a less cost than the Cape

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Government. Supposing they raised that sum, it appears to me that the interest on that million of money would be about 25,0007. a year. That would be the present contribution of the Cape Colony towards the expense of maintaining the Navy. The only condition I should like to attach to that is this: that there should be, on the part of the Cape Government, an option to pay off that liability from time to time, in suns, you might say, of 100,0001. each. Beyond that I should not desire that any condition whatever should be attached to it. Her Majesty's Government can build an additional ironclad, but I do not ask that that additional ironclad should be sent out to South Africa. It is put entirely at the disposal of Her Majesty's Government. I do not know whether that meets the views of gentlemen here present, representing other parts of the Empire. I can only say that the Cape Colony is prepared to go to that extent. I suppose that that matter will be fully considered-I am sure it will be by Her Majesty's Government, and that the other gentlemen here will be prepared to submit some proposals. If they can suggest anything better than I have proposed, I would be very ready to consider that, and to accept anything which would be regarded as an im- provement upon the suggestion which I have made. With regard to the is a matter idea of what may be called the Federal Council of the Empire,

we have very much considered in past times.

Mr. Reid.] Sir Gordon, I hope you will pardon my interrupting you. My suggestion was that we should go into these matters amongst ourselves first, and I abstained from going into these observations.

Sir Gordon Sprigg.] Some speakers have made remarks; they have not kept very closely to the resolution.

Mr. Reid.] It is a pity, because it will obviate the usefulness of my We will suggestion if we go on now here. I only suggest that for you. come to Mr. Chamberlain again after we have had a chat together, and each will take his own line.

Sir Gordon Sprigg.] There is no desire that we should go to any extent into particulars, but most of these matters have been alluded to by one or other of the gentlemen who have spoken already,

The Secretary of State.] Of course, Sir Gordon, we shall have to discuss them in detail, all of them, if that is the view. I have no doubt, and, in fact, I rather gathered, that you were bringing your remarks to a close. What you have said about the Navy is very interesting.

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Sir Gordon Sprigg.] I am not going any further into other matters. What I am going into now is the matter of Asiatic immigration. I only wanted to say upon that what the position we take is. I have paid the very closest attention to the remarks which Mr. Chamberlain has made, course, England has always taken up the position of being an asylum for all nations of the whole world, and naturally we do not desire to do anything contrary to that, but with such an overwhelming coloured population as we have in South Africa at the present time we want, if possible, to exclude any addition to that element. In Africa the large coloured population is a great trial to us in carrying on the administration of the country, and that is the reason why we have taken up a strong position on this question of endeavouring to prohibit Asiatic immigration.

Mr. Kingston.] I desire to join in the grateful acknowledgment of the admirable address in which you have introduced the object of this Conference, and I am sure our gratitude will be increased subsequently by a more exact definition of the wishes of the Imperial Government. Under these circum- stances, sympathising altogether with what has been said that we should adjourn for the purpose of considering, not only our answer to the suggestions, but our mode of debate, I shall at present refrain from discussing any questions which have been mentioned. I would, however, like to say, with regard to the remarks of Sir Gordon Sprigg, that although it has been put that England makes herself an asylum for all nations, I am pleased to hear, sir, from your remarks that you sympathise with the Australian wishes that Australia should not be made a destitute asylum for B 4

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