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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

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THEC.O. 885

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ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC-

PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

7 December 1896.]

Chairman -continued.

200

Colonel HoZIER.

are in favour of having another cable if we can. We have got a signal station at Honolulu which is not connected by telegraph cable, and, of course, we can get no information from there Sometimes vessels except by ordinary post.

which have been out of time have arrived at Honolulu and been there some time; there has been no information of them, and underwriters have paid overdue premiums, and the friends of the passengers and the friends of the crew have been put to a good deal of anxiety.

3188. Honolulu has been proposed as one of the routes possible, but there is a route which is more favoured, I think, than Honolulu, and that is by Fanning Island and Fiji; how would that affect the question of your signals ?—Well, Fiji. There is a good deal of trade there. I have a few statistics of the recent trade with Fiji and Samoa; would that come into it?

3189. Give it us separately, Fiji and Samoa? -At Nukuolofa and Samoa (Friendly Islands), between the 1st January and 10th October this year, 36 vessels arrived, principally small coasters, but six of the vessels were barques which called for cargoes; 37 vessels sailed from these places were between the same dates, of which 31

six were coasting vessels and the other

At Levuka, barques which called for cargoes.

in the Fiji, 42 vessels arrived between 1st January and 30th September this year, of which three were barques for cargoes. The others were coasting vessels and steamers from Aus- tralia and New Zealand; 39 vessels sailed from this place between these dates, of which three were barques with cargoes and the others were steamers for Australia and New Zealand and coasting vessels. At Suva, in the Fijis, seven barques have been reported this year, so far, as having arrived there for cargoes, and subse- quently sailed again. That is all I have been able to get out in the rather short time.

3190. Supposing that the route of the cable to Fanning proposed were from Vancouver Island, where, of course, there is no trade, and then on to Fiji, and so by Norfolk Island to New Zealand and Australia, would stations, say, at Fanning Island, on one island of the Gilbert group, say, Canton Island and Fiji, be any use for news of vessels being transmitted from, say, Samoa and Honolulu ? Well, I do not know; 1 have not looked into that; but, if I remember trade at those places rightly, there is no themselves.

3191. Not at Fanning Island, or at Canton Island ?—I do not think there is.

3192. There would be no means of sending your messages from these other islands -Oh, should, no doubt, make means. The principal thing the public take an interest in, apart from underwriters, is the safety of ships, and, of course, if any accident happens to a vessel, if she can get to a place where there is a telegraph station, or send a boat there, she sends for assistance, or she sends news that she is safe, and that relieves the anxiety of the friends of the When- passengers, or the friends of the crew.

ever a vessel is supposed to have gone down, numbers of people, wives, sisters, and relations of

Chairm in-continued.

[Continued.

the crew, always come to ask about them; it is a great thing to be able to give those people any information to relieve their anxiety.

3193. Can you give the Committee any infor- mation as to the amount of trade that is being done between either Cana la or the United States, and Australia, now?—No, I should have to get up statistics about that, but of course it has developed largely within the last few years.

3194. Trade is developing?-I think so, very much indeed. Taking Honolulu as a stepping stone of that trade, I have got some figures here. Between the 1st January and 31st October this year, 275 vessels were reported arrived at Honolulu, of which 145 were mail steamers, steamers and sailing vessels from Australia, China, United Kingdom, and North America. The others were mostly United States coasting vessela. Between the same dates, 271 vessels were reported sailed, of which 120 were mail steamers, steamers trading between Aus- tralía, China, and San Francisco, and sailing vessels for New York. The remainder were

mostly United States coasting vessels. Of course, a few years ago, I suppose there were not more than two or three, something of that sort; more than that, perhaps, I suppose under 30, in the course of the year.

3195. Are you prepared to go so far as to say that you think there are signs of a rather in- portant trade developing between Australia and the west coast of America?-Certainly it has increased lately very much; nobody can predict that it will go on, but it has every chance of doing so.

3196. Are you in a position at all to say what the views generally of the shipping world are as regards this proposed cable?—No, I have not had an opportunity of speaking to anybody about it.

3197. You are only able to say that from the point of view of Lloyds it would be a distinct advantage to have a cable in the Pacific?—Yes, I think it would, especially to open up the Friendly Islands, and the trade of those islands.

3198. If those islands were opened up, do you think trade would develop with them ?—I think it would; I think it would increase.

3199. Is it a fact that the development of trade depends very largely on the telegraphic communication? No, I do not think very largely; but to a certain extent it does, because, of course, if merchants can know about their better by telegraph markets, which they can than in any other way, it facilitates trade. Many people will not send cargoes without knowing something about what market they are likely to find.

commercial world are using the telegraph more 3200. And you think that the shipping and

than they were?-Oh, enormously,

3201. Enormously? Our telegrams have gone up, speaking from memory, in the last 10 years from something like 40,000 to 60,000 in the course of the year.

Mr. Jones.

3202. Messages ?-I think so, but I will get the exact figures and send them.

7 December 1896.]

Chairman.

201

Colonel HoZIER,

3203. Therefore the development has been two-fold; in the first place, increased business has caused increased telegraphic correspondence, but I understand you to say that for the same business the amount of telegrams now used is greater than it was formerly ?-Certainly; I have no doubt on that point.

3204. Of course that is a class of expansion which must reach its limit some time?—Yes; still it is made very convenient to use the tele- graph now. They telegraph a great deal now where formerly they would have written.

3205. And even with the higher rates of tariff? With the higher rates of tariff. Of course the moment the tariff is reduced there is a greater increase; a greater proportion of increase at

once.

Mr. Murray.

3206. Were those figures that you gave us of the vessels calling at the islands; were they vessels in which you were interested, or merely the total trade? -Merely the total trade.

3207. What proportion of them do you suppose were insured in London ?—I cannot tell. Llayds is not an insurance company; it is only a place of meeting of underwriters, and 1 have no know-

[Continued.

Mr. Murray continued. ledge of what vessels are insured, excepting they get into trouble, and then they come to us to try to help them. It is almost impossible to tell, but I should think the greater majority of those vessels were insured in London or in the United Kingdom; in Liverpool possibly some of them.

3208. And do you get reports of all shipping? -Yes,

3209. That is on the move ?—All shipping. 3210. Including-Every ocean-going vessel is reported at Lloyds.

3211. It is your policy rather, is it not, to increase the means of safety for navigation rather than the means of communication? No, I do not think so; it is more that we want the movements of shipping, which is of enormous importance to merchants and shipowners, and they ought to have that information rapidly.

3212. Which would you rather spend money on, lightships and lighthouses, or telegrams?- Lightships and lighthouses certainly. Lightships and lighthouses prevent the casualties, and the telegraphs only let us know where the casualties occur. There is no curtainty that a ship will meet with an accident just where telegraphic facilities are found.

The Witness withdrew,

Mr. E. T. DOXAT, Chairman of Dalgety and Company, Limited, called in; and Examined.

Chairman.

3213. I THINK you belong to the firm of Dalgety and Company ?—Yes.

3214. Who are engaged in the Australian trade?—Yes.

3215. Is the business of your firm with all the Australasian colonies ?—With all the Australa- sian colonies; that incans to say, with Australia proper, Tasmania, and New Zealand.

Chairman-continued.

mercial purposes the more alternative lines there are the better you think there should be another cable?—I should say, certainly.

3220. Is there a tendency for the use of the telegraph to increase -Most distinctly; in fact, all business of any importance is conducted by telegraphi letters only confirm the business which is done.

3221. Has that any influence on the speed with which your telegraphic messages ure de- livered?

Are your messages delivered with about the same speed as formerly ?--I think so, generally, yes. We always consider when we telegraph in the afternoon up to five or six o'clock that we ought to get a reply next morn- It is no use

3216. Are you able to speak with authority bred from knowledge of the general conditions of business with Australasia?-I think so, fairly.

3217. Are you able to speak generally ?—Yes, 3218. Is there, so far as you are aware, any demand in commercial circles in Australasia for increasel telegraphic communication ?--I do not think we want increased telegraphic communicaing; it always acts in that way. tion, except as an alternative cable. I mean to say that at present we have at times hal serious interruptions, not so much of late years, but during the volcanic eruptions in Java, for example. We have very serious interruptions ccasionally from the interruptions over the land lines, which the proposed cable would obviate, at any rate so far as regards the Eastern colonies, Tasmania and New Zealand, and that makes a

very great difficulty in ducting business, because you, perhaps, send out orders from this country for goods to he supplied by a certain given date, the cable gets interrupted, and you may be saddled with a lot of goods, as the customer may say,

"Oh, my order was for reply within 48 hours," and it creates a treat deal of difficulty that way.

3219. (n the general principle that for com-

telegraphing, as you gentlemen know, much before five or six o'clock in the evening, because it gets there in the middle of the night. We always telegraph ourselves in the afternoon, and we expect that to reach the colonies the next morning early, say nine or ten o'clock, and they can reply then up to quite late in the afternoon, and we get the reply here next morning, sup- posing everything goes straight.

con-

3222. Do you think there is going to be a con- tinuous increase in the amount of telegraphic business with Australia ?-I have no doubt about

that.

3223. Would that increase be due to an in- crease of commerce generally, or would the tele- graphic communication be on a totally different scale to the increase of business ? No I should

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