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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

Reference :-

THELLC.O. 885 / 6

PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH—NOT TO

1 December 1896.]

Mr. R. K. GRAY.

Chairman-continued. Cable Company 19, the Direct United States Company 9, the French Atlantic Company 1, and the Western Union Telegraph Company- the American Cable Company it is called, it is n In line leased by the Western Union-15. Great Britain 58 stations is the total.

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2651. Between them?-Between them. the other hand, the Eastern Telegraph Company and the Indo-European Telegraph Company have respectively in the United Kingdom 11 and I have not put in the 5, making the total 16. Great Northern Telegraph Company, because that would be a very, very, roundabout way to get to Australia. The Australian traffic is principally collected by the Eastern and the Indo-European line, so that here you have 16 stations for the existing line and 58 for the Pacific line, a very large handicap the existing line. I do not know exactly what the relations are between Mr. Lamb and the Eastern Company, so far as arrangements are concerned, because that certainly enters very much into the question. If the British Post Office are bound by agreements made before the Government took over the telegraphs from the companies that existed before, if they are bound to give unrouted traffic to the Eastern Company, of course their stations will send their traffic by the existing route; but Mr. Lamb will be able to give you full information upon that subject, I think that is all I have to say about stations.

2652. Then I should like to take you to quite a different subject; you wrote, on the 24th De- cember 1895, a letter to Sir Charles Tupper, correcting the type of core to be included in your tender? Yes.

2653. You raised it to a core of 552 lbs. of copper and 368 lbs. of gutta-percha! - Yes. From my memory I have no doubt that is correct.

2654. This is your letter (producing letters? -- Oh, it is all right, that is correct.

2655. And you did that on a report furnished to you by Lord Kelvin-Yes.

2656. You know very well the difference between a theoretical speed and a working speed in a cable ?—Yes.

2657. Now, when you asked Lord Kelvin to advise you what core was necessary to put into the section between Vancouver and Fanning Island, to carry 12 words per minute, were those theore- tical words or working words?— Well, I call them working words; but I would like to explain that the practice in telegraphy, that is to say, drawing up specifications, the practice is to consider a word as represented by five, well, represented by This list five letters (referring to paper).

I have here wae drawn up at the time. estimated speed for the various sections of the various routes. For core 1, we will call it, "in That is words of five letters each per minute." the practice and always has been, so far as we know.

2658. Then, as I understand, you asked Lord Kelvin to tell you what core would carry in practical working 60 letters per minute?--That

is correct.

2659. And Lord Kelvin understood that to be in practical working, and not in theoretical speed? -No doubt,

Chairman-continued.

[Continued.

2660. And therefore the theoretical speed that Lord Kelvin would attribute to that cable would be higher than that?—I do not quite understand the point it may be quite clear, but I do not quite understand the drift of it.

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2661. If there is distinction between the the- retical speed and the working speed, and Lord Kelvin, in alvising this core, meant to give his authority to the statement that it carry in working practice 60 letters per minute. it follows that that core has a higher theoretical speed than 60 letters per minute ?—When you say theoretical speed and practical speed, those to me, as an electrician, have a certain meaning. Theore- tical speed means, altogether irrespective of the length of the word. Theoretical speed means the theoretical reading of signals in a minute; the theoretical reading. Nothing whatever to do with the length of a word; the theoretical reading; and you must understand that in prae- tice you never get so high; in fact, we are not perfect, and very often the theory is beyond the practice in that way. So that Lord Kelvin, I expect, like ourselves, would actually give a speed in words per minute of practice, not theory.

2662. Of practice, not theory ?-That is to say, what we would get; the practical speed of five letters a word.

2663. Then are you prepared to show that in your opinion you have no manner of doubt that this core would martual working carry 60 letters a minute?—Yes, I have every reason to believe

it.

2664. Simplex ?-Simplex, yes; I have every reason to believe it, because I have a letter from Lard Kelvin, and also other authorities; Mr. Taylor and Dr. Muirhead will confirm, doubtless; they are so much engaged in the work that they are the best men on the subject.

Mr. Gillies.

2665. This evidence raised in my mind the ilea that specialists, such as we would call you or other do not agree. and others, somehow There is a construction which we put upon words which alf the others do not put upon them. For instance, you say that a cable of the particular core you mentioned would give you twelve words a minute through this cable at its longest stretch; others that come here tell us, other experts tell us, it will give us four words a Now it is minute; others say a little over two, difficult for one who is not an expert to under- Of course what we really, should stand that. it be thought desirable to lay this cable, want to know is, what it is capable of doing, what its capacity for work is, how much work it can do. Some persons say it can only get two words a minute through it, and that means that it is not fit to do its work. If you can get five that is another story, or four; if you can get twelve, in reality, I suppose that it is better still; but yet we are told by some that a cable which can only pass through twelve words a minute is the smallest strength of cable that has been yet made. What is your experience on that ?-Then do I understand your question, Mr. Gillies, to be that you want to know what capacity the cable would

1 December 1896.]

Mr. R. K. GRAY.

Mr. Gillies-continued, have for traffic, as in contradistinction to the electrical standard; is that the idea?

different

2666. Yes. Of course that is a thing. That, like most of those questions, is n difficult question to answer, but it depends upon two things. In a cable there is a paying traffic and there is a non-paying traffic; that is to say, there is a traffic that the public pay for, and there is a traffic that is carried on by the administra- tion of the system. In some administrations, if they carry on the whole of the administration by telegraph, it may be very large, I cannot say how large, but in other administrations it may be small. Perbaps that may have something to do with the difficulty you find in understanding the situation; because if, for instance, you are at one station and I am at another, and I have to telegraph a message to you-I may telegraph a message of, Bay, 10 words-then I afterwards send you a service message, that is a message perfectly free. saying to you, "Why did you not receive that "message quicker?" What time did you arrive at "the office this morning!" and all sorts of admin- istrative questions, which would certainly block the line. Well, for that reason I cannot give you a general opinion as to what the dead traffic I have known of cases in on the line might be. which I, myself, as a director of telegraph com panies, have had the freedom of the line. Times without number people have sent messages free. Would you call that a message or not, in counting the traffic of the line? It is a very big question to deal with, but so far as our ex- perience goes on the line to South America (1 have not very full statistice, but such as I have here were taken perfectly at hazarıl, and include three classes of messages. They include official messages, with precedence, then press messages, and ordinary messages; I simply take an aver- age of 100 messages-not in any way picked, I assure you perfectly fair, 100 messages I have taken them. to and from South America. in their regular order; there were 1.402 words of 8,462 letters, that means to say there were 14 words per message, and 6'03 letters per word. That is from traffic; but that does not include what is known as the preamble. You notice that 6-03 letters are actually telegraphed words and paid for; but in telegraphing, a habit is, on the Atlantic, I believe, to send the town "from" in abbreviation, and not charge for it, and also to send the num- ber of the message. That number, I believe, is placed on messages every day so numbers do not run to large figures, but that is the most favourable condition. I think that the Eastern and the Eastern Exten- sion in their traffic send the town "from," the time, hardly ever the date- there may be instances--but hardly ever the date. I do not know whether they telegraph through their lines the number-they may, but I think that they do not; of course, messages that they receive, have a number on them, but it is quite probable that the receiving clerk has on his table a check, and he really just checks it off as the messages In this case the number come through to him. would be put on by the receiving clerk without being telegraphed; but I would not state I am sure of that.

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that the

Chairman.

[Continued.

2667. But the preamble, station from, and everything combined in the signs that you use, is tantamount to bow many words ?--Those, of course, are only attached to each message, and before you can apply them to the effect they have on the word length you must know the number of words in the message.

2668. The preamble would amount to two words extra on each messageThe preamble would wmount to two words extra on each message.

2669. Then, your administration, or telegraph- ing to know why the man was late, and so

Why were you so slow to receive that mes- sage?" What percentage of all your traffic would that come to ?-1 am very sorry I cannot tell you but various amounts.

on.

267). Do you think it would be over 5 per cent. - should not think so; but that is a very loose answer of mine.

Mr. Gillies.

2671. Would it make all that difference be- tween two and seven-1 do not understand.

2672. The number of words that could be passed through in a minute from Vaucouver to Fanning Island. That is the longest distance. These additional words that you spoke of, letters, would not make the difference as between two and seven-I should not think so at all, at all. I do not know how two is arrived at. I do not understand why you mentioned two at all.

2673. It is understood to be a calculation of the paying words that you can send through the cable? Well, that I can perfectly understand, but in order to get at a calculation of the paying words you must know the volume of those that do not pay, and I really cannot in any way say what they are. I have just told Lord Selborne that they are about 5 per cent. of our traffic. It depends so much upon the administration. If you have a responsible man at each station, and if you administer with a great deal of decen- tralisation, and then if you take your man who does not do things properly and get rid of him, it means that you do not require to send so many service messages.

2674-5. I am asking what the capacity of the cable is to send messages, to send so many words a minute

Sir Donald Smith.] Paying words?

Mr. Gillies.

2676. That is another element altogether; that is how much money you make out of the I am cable. I am not speaking of that at all. speaking of the capacity of the cable to send through it so many words a minute. That is the point we have been threshing out for a long

time.

What the cable could do ?-Would this answer your question, that a message being ten words long and the average length of the paying words being 6-03, that is to say, 60 letters in that message, the non-paying words being two, I think you said, that makes 12 words, out of which two are non-paying. Is that the whole ADswer? Would that be an answer to your question?

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