CO885-(6-7) — Page 340

[Continued.

26 November 1896.]

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The Marquess of TWEEDDALE, Mr. H. A. C. SAUNDERS,

and Mr. F. E. HESSE.

[Continued

34

PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

Reference -

C.O. 885

6

ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC-

PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

Chairman-continued.

1864. Do you think we can look forward to the present volume of business being doubled in another 10 years?—I should not like to say so. (Marquess of Twerddale.) That is a difficult question to answer.

1865. I think you have estimated: you have naturally taken a great interest in this proposal, and you have worked out for yourselves an estimate of what it would cost to lay a cable. Can you tell the Committee what the result of your estimate is? The Fanning Island, Fiji, Norfolk Island route-(Mr. Hesse.) Taking the core of the cable between Vancouver and Fanning as 650 lbs. of copper and 400 lbs. of gutta-percha-that would be the largest core possible in our opinion-and allowing what we should consider a fair amount of slack-

1866. What percentage?-On that section, Vancouver-Fanning, 15 per cent. (Marquess of Tiperddale.) Docs that agree with your estimate, Mr. Saunders? (Mr. Saunders.) That is full; but still it would be 13, certainly. (Mr. Hesse.) You would not care to estimate less than 13. (Mr. Saunders.) But you would make 20, (Mr. Hesse.) You would make 20, and send out with the ship, but from 13 to 15 would be laid; it would vary according to the depths. (Mr. Saunders.) I could give you some depths. (Mr. Hesse.) For the Fanning-Fiji section, with a smaller core, but with greater depths than be- tween Vancouver and Fanning, as far as we know, we have allowed 17 per cent, slack, and on the other sections where the depths would pro- bably be very great 17 per cent. of slack is allowed, and we should estimate the cost at the current market prices at something like 1,650,0007, but exclusive of repairing ships.

1867. Quite so; merely for the making and the laying of the cable? For the making and the laying of the cable, erecting the stations, and supplying working apparatus, and so on.

1868. Does that include stations or not?—The erection of stations.

1869. The erection of stations?-The erection

of stations at each landing place.

1870. It includes the erection of stations and the supplying of the apparatus?—Yes.

1871. And what speed do you calculate would be got out of a core of 650 copper and 400 gutta- percha on the Fanning Island section? The utmost capacity, theoretically, we should consider to be about 13 words per minute, of five lettere,

say, 65 letters,

1872. Sixty-five Saunders.) No.

letters each way?—Mr.

1873. On the duplex system? No, you only get 80 per cent. (Mr. Hesse.) You do not get double the capacity by using the duplex.

1874. Ninety per cent is it not?--About 80 per cent.

1875. You say that such a core would give 65 letters per minute simplex? -Simplex.

1876. And what would it give duplex ?-A little over 100. About 80 per cent. more than simplex. (Mr. Saunders.) Yes. (Marquess of Tweeddate.) That is gross. (Mr. Hesse.) That is the gross number of letters, but, of course, if you reduce

Chairman-continued.

that by 75 per cent, to get at the actual paying letters you obtain a very low result.

1877. Just let us get that quite clear; that 65 letters per minute.-(Mr. Saunders.) I think you might take that really at 70. (Mr. Hesse.) Well, say 70.

1878. Your 70 letters per minute simplex is a gross estimate? Is the utmost capacity of the cable.

1879. Is the maximum speed?-Is the maxi- mum speed.

1880. And, therefore, you would put the paying letters ultainable out of such a section at how many per minute?-About 17.

1881. About 17 letters-17-5 letters. taking one-fourth; about one-fourth is the average.

1882. 175 letters, which according to your experience is not quite two words a minute? (Mr. Hesse.) Not quite two words a minute,

no.

1883. Therefore, on

the duplex system it would be not quite four words per minute?- (Mr. Saunders.) Not quite four. (Mr. Hesse.) If the traffic were flowing both ways at the same time.

1884. But in your experience that does not happen so much on the Australian service as on the Atlantic ?—No.

1885. Are you of opinion that it would not be safe to lay a core heavier than 650) of copper, and 400 of gutta percha?-(Mr. Saunders.) That is an engineering question, and the opinion is that that is the heaviest core that you can lay if you ever want to lift your cable again. (Marquess of Tweeddale.) I approach the breaking strain.

1886. Even when you cut it? Yes. (Mr. Saunders,) When it was on the bows it

would closely

would be close on its breaking strain, and a rise in the ship would very likely carry it away.

1887. Does the 1,650,000l. which you have estimated this cable would cost, include, besides stations and apparatus, tanks for the spare cable?

(Mr. Hesse.) Yes.

1888. Such tanks would, I imagine, be neces- sary?—They would be necessary, of course; they are not very expensive.

1889. And where would you think such tanks should be stationed ? Where the ships would be stationed. There would have to be repairing

ships, and where they were stationed the tanks should be, so that they might get their supplies of cable.

1890. Now that, of course, brings us to the question of maintaining such a cable, if made; what would you estimate the annual repairs and maintenance ought to be put down at if such a cable belonged to you? not working expenses.

We should have to assume, I think, that two ships would be necessary; at least two ships.

1891. I agree. And these could not be maintained at much less than 50,0007. a year.

1892. £50,000 a year for the two ships? For the two ships, because they would have to be ships of large draught, and then, of course,

Chairman-continued, there might be a large quantity of cable used. That is an unknown quantity.

1893. That is an unknown quantity, but the only expense beyond the maintenance of the ships would be the amount of cable used, what- ever it was?—Yes.

1894. And what would you put the working expenses of such a line with stations at Faming Island, one island, we will say, in the Gilbert group, Fiji, Norfolk Island ?--Something be- tween 30,000, and 35,000 a year.

1895. Should it be decided to lay this rable for Imperial reasons, would your company he prepared to work and maintain it for an agreed annual sum? ✅ Marquess of Tieroddoddey. Not a fine from Vancouver to Fanning Island. The risks are

great that the company could not undertake that on any terms,

1896. Does that apply to laying or to main- taining?—To maintaining

NO

It was

1897. That you regard the cost of main- tenance as so uncertain that you would not be prepared to enter into any agreement ?—Our ex- perience of both the Atlantic cables; for in-tanec, the 1874 cable in the Atlantic, an abortive attempt to repair it cost us 50,0007, repaired the next year at an extra cost of from 20,0004, to 30,000, so that that single repair cost us 80,000L That was not in very deep water, when I say deep, about 2,500 fathoms or something of that sort, but the expense was no doubt due to the inclemency of the weather, bad

season.

1898. Then do I understand that you would not have anything to do with such a cable on any terms? On any terms. No, Mr. Hysse.) Are you speaking for the Government account or on the company's account?

I

1899. I was speaking on the Government's ac- count - Marquess of Tæreditale,) Oh, I beg your pardon. I did not understand that. understood that you were asking whether we as a company would undertake to maintain it.

1900, You, as a company, would not under take on your own account to lay or maintain such a cable on any terms?- Mr. Hesse. Not on account of the company, Marquess of Twerddale, We would undertake to lay à calde: there is no risk in laying a cable. 4 Mr. Hesse, i Yes; but if we had to provide the money) (Marquess of Tweeddale.) But I thought you meant the operation of laying. Mr. Hesse. } We could not undertake to lay such a cable. It is such a risky business along this route.

1901. Now turn to the other side of the ques- tion on account of the Government, would you terms be prepared (Marquess" of Tweediale. Oh, yes; but I am afraid I am not in a position to say what terms.

on aby

1902. But merely that you would be prepared if it ever came to actual business to make offers?- We are quite ready to negotiate and undertake it on a fair basis. (Mr. Hesse.) We think we are in a much better position to undertake such a work than any other company, having great facilities and experience.

1903. There are one or two questions, Mr.

I think I

Chairman-continued. Saunders, I should like to ask you. have really covered almost all the ground, but, on this question of lack, what is your general practice about the amount of slack which you put in?-In ordering a cable we always allow, for slack and contingencies, 20 per cent. on the length.

1904. For manufacture?-For manufacture. I have never had to deal with such deep waters Our as you are talking about in the Pacific. deepest water is 2,900 fathomus, our maximum There I should depth, and the mean 2,356. alway- allow somewhere about 12; but I will give you the actual figures. Here is the St. Vincent-Pernambuco cable, which is 1,862 miles in length, but the maximum depth is 2,960. The mean depth all through is 2,356, and we paid out on that 112 per cent, slack. I will take the next one, Lishon and St. Miguel; the maximum is 2,650, the mean 2.129; we paid out 11-29 per vent, of slack.

Another one, the Porth- eurnow-Lisbon, the new cable (not the one that was laid before survey), 2,700 maximum depth; and a

mean of 1.682, 10:51 per cent. slack. Here is a case, and it is rather an instructive

Tue:

On the Aden and Bombay cable (our No. 2 cable, which was laid in 1877), the maxi- mum depth was 2,195, and the mean 1,453. Not having had an actual survey, but knowing there were great irregularities in the bottom, we paid out as much as 136 per cent, of slack on that cable to make sure of some unknown quantities; but when we laid Aden-Bombay No. 3, in 1891, having previously very carefully surveyed the course, and found there was a maximum depth there of 2,380, and a mean of 1,555, we only Those are paid out 9:46 per cent. of slack, the maximum depths we deal with, and I should say, when you come to get into 3,000 fathoms you ought to allow 13 to 15 per cent. of slack.

1905. Now, do these percentages mean the excess over the actual distance travelled by the ship-Yes,

1906. Or the whole of the excess over the calculated distance by the charts ?--Over the distance travelled by the ship.

1907. Have you ever known a cable laid without a careful survey? Unfortunately, many, In fact we never thought of making any surveys in the earlier days The cable was laid in the Red Sen from the latest survey that we had. The nautical survey that we had was 1835-surveyed by one of the East Indian sailing ships; and there is a case in point. I actually laid part of that cable myself, down the Red Sea, and within a year it broke. It was in the Gulf of Suez: nogreat depths-30 or 40 fathoms it may be-but we laid it over a patch of four to five fathoms.

1908. Would you ever think of laying a cable now without a survey --Oh, dear, no!

1908. And what kind of distance apart would you take soundings ?-Generally take them 10 miles apart going down and intersect those coming up, about five miles; but immedia'ely there is any irregularity shown-any great irregularity-then we zigzag to find out what the cause of it is.

You

1909. And how many soundings could you

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