CO885-(6-7) — Page 289

201

PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

Reference :-

ETC.O. 885

9

ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC-

PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

12 November 1896.]

18

Mr. FLEMING, C.M.G., C.E.

Chairman-Continued. stability of a cable?—According to my view it it is quite long enough.

22. There would not be a danger of a cable being made by a contractor which he was well assured would stand three years, but which might very shortly afterwards need much repair?I understand the faults of a cable show themselves

principally in the first 12 months, and if it stands over the first 12 months, there is very little fear of any faults developing themselves later on.

23. You do not think that under such a system there would be any danger of the contractor simply looking to the three years and not to the future-I do not think so. Of course, in going into a contract with any cable-manufacturing firm, a proper specification would be made out, and that point would be properly scen to.

24. The route that you recommend practically bridges an unknown sea so far as the soundings are concerned; is not that so?—If I may say 80, I am not aware that I recommended any par- ticular route. I pointed out that there was a number of routes at one time available, but that there is only one route now.

25. will alter my form of question. The only practicable route before us in your opinion is that which crosses a sea which has not yet been surveyed? The only available route is the Fanning Ieland route, and, of course, it crosses a sea in which cables have not yet been laid.

26. And how far have soundings been effected? -Soundings have been effected in various parts of the Pacific Ocean, and these sounding do not, as far as I am aware, indicate that there would be any special difficulty in laying a cable across

that unknown sea.

27. Have soundings been taken actually on the route from Vancouver to Fanning Island? Soundings have been taken on lines crossing the route, not on the route itself.

28. And what has been the result of the soundings on lines crossing that route ?-The Boundings show a bottom and a depth not dia- similar to the oceans in which cables have already been laid, such as the Atlantic Ocean.

29. Of what sort of depth ?-From 2,700 to 3,000 fathoms.

30. And was the bottom fairly even, or was it very much cut up into mountains and valleys? -As far as the soundings developed the nature of the bottom, the bottom is very uniform.

31. Is it considered now an essential of sub- marine engineering that the cable should be on the bottom?-Oh, I should think so.

32. It is ?—Yes.

33. No matter what the configuration of the bottom may be?—I think so.

*

94. It would be against all the best judgment upon the subject that a cable should cross any very wide valley ?—Oh, clearly.

35. "have one further question to ask in that Connection. There has been no proposal that I know of of a double cable?-I cannot say that there has been no proposal, but it has not been brought forward in any special way.

Chairman-continued.

[Continued.

36. On the ground, I presume, that the cost would be prohibitive?-No, not that ground, simply on the ground that it was not at present

necessary.

37. As a duplication of a cable on such an important route as this would be not absolutely necessary? I do not think so, because this would practically be a third cable to Australia, assuin- ing that there are two cables already laid by

another route.

38. And therefore the connection with Aus- tralia would not under ordinary circumstances be impaired by this cable breaking ?- Not at

all.

39. But supposing in time of war this cable was the only one available for communication with Australia, it would be a very serious woukl matter if it was then broken? It indeed.

40. And how far from the point of view of ordinary commercial working would the liability of a breakage, with no alternate cable belonging to the same owners, how far would that affect the commercial aspect of the success of the cable ?-It should affect it as it does all other cables if there is only one, and there is more or less danger of a break occurring on any cable, especially in shallow water near the shore ends. Of course there would require to be provision to repair these breaks as soon as possible.

41. 1

may take it, I suppose, that all the great lines of cables are now duplicate, duplicate not only in point of fact to the two countries connected, but duplicate also as regards the

owners of the cables ?-I believe most of them are now, but they were not at first. I can instance one, the cable across the Atlantic to Pernambuco; that remained single for a number of years. Now it is duplicated, when traffic developed suffi- ciently to warrant duplication.

42. And has that been the general progress of the cable companies, that they have started with a single cable?—In a general way it has. Some of the more recently-laid cables have been made in paire at once, but I fancy most of the cables have been laid singly to begin with.

43. I should like to coine now to the question of revenue, and I consider that question of revenue on the supposition that a cable has been laid by three sets of Governments conjointly, by the Imperial Government, by the Dominion Government and by the AustralasianGovernments, and that, therefore, those three Governments have an interest in the success of the cable. You base your estimate of revenue on the sup- position that half the traffic to Australasia would go through this new cable ?—I do.

44. What ground have you for taking that as the basis of your calculation ?—I think figure

it is a very reasonable proposition that the traffic should be shared, at least approximately, in equal parts by two cables.

45. Would not the old cable companies use the whole of their commercial influence to keep as much as they could in their own hands ?-No doubt they would, but the land lines of Australia being worked and owned by the various Australa- sian Goveruments, they would have the power to

12 November 1896.]

19

Mr. FLEMING, C.M.G., C.E.

Chairman-continued. divide the traffic very much as they wished; at least that is view.

my

46. You think that the Governments being interested would be able to more than counter- balance the efforts of the companies?—I think

Bu.

47. Now your calculation of the number of words that is likely to be transmitted is based on the present rate of increase?-It is based on the ratio of increase during a period of 20 years; not the past year, which has been very high indeed, but during the longest period of years. This I have taken as my basis of calcu- lation.

48. But still, taking that as your basis of calculation, you calculate the proceeds on a very reduced rate per word ?—Yes, on a reduced rate per word: 2s. per word is the estimated charge in this case: 28. across the Pacific, not 2s, from Australasia to England, but 3s. from Australasia to England.

to

Australasia 49. Three shillings from England for the public ?--For the public, yea.

50. And for the Governments ?-For the Governments proportionately reduced rates.

51. And for the press likewise?-For the press likewise a lower rate.

52. And what are the present rates?—The present rates, if I am informed correctly, are 4s. 9d. for the public; the other rates are lower. I cannot charge my memory with the exact amounts at this moment.

53. And on the basis of half the traffic on the present ratio of increase at a charge of 23. a word across the Pacific or 3s. from, England to Australasia, you base the gross earnings which are to be found on page 210 of your memoran- dum?—I do,

54. Against those earnings you put a steady and unvarying charge of 125,000, a year. How -The cost of re- is that charge made up pairs and maintenance, usually estimated at 61. per mile, would amount to 43,000 per annum ; for this service I have allowed 50,0001., which added to interest and working expenses increase to 125,000 per the charge against revenue

annum.

55. That includes repairs and maintenance, working expenses, and interest on capital?

Yes.

56. But I observe in the tenders that are sent in a great diversity of opinion as to what the cost of maintenance is? Yes, naturally there would be a difference of opinion among parties tendering on that point, but I formed the im- pression that the

sum allowed was ample for the purpose. I give my reason for assuming that 50,000l. was sufficient, that the repairs and maintenance are usually estimated at 61. per mile; that rate on the whole distance would amount to 43,0001, and I have taken it at the round figure of 50,000%.

57. But the Henley Telegraph Works Com- pany, I see on page 219, put it at no less a sum than 115,000 per annum ?-Other firms tendering do

Chairman-continued.

[Continued.

The India- not estimate any such large sum. rubber Telegraph Works Company include the maintenance in the lump sum of 1,517,000/.

58. And do you know how much of that they calculate for maintenance and repairs ?-1 do not know.

59. You do not ?--No.

60. Can you explain the extraordinary diversity between these tenders?-1 cannot explain it. The figures are made up independently of each other, and each calculator has his own mode of getting at them

61. Because you will observe that if we accept your estimate of the probable gross earnings, yet the surplus which you foresee depends largely or entirely on the charges which have to be met, and the diversity between your estimate of the charges and the estimates of some of these tenderers is so great that I should like to have an explanation, if you can offer it? Well, I have given an explanation, in part at all events. I have stated that the usual charge for mainten- ance in such cases is 67. per mile, which would make the whole 43,000, and for this service I have allowed 50,0007.

62. But if 61. per mile is the usual estimate for repairs and maintenance, what can the reason be why some tenderers put down their estimate at so much higher a figure? can the reason be that they felt that they were dealing with an unknown quantity in contracting to bridge this unexplored sea, or rather unsurveyed sea ?—I really could not answer that question; I do not know. It may be simply one way, as soine may have thought, of getting larger price for their work. The various prices for manufacturing and laying the cable would be compared, and the cost of maintenance would stand by itself. I am afraid I cannot give an explanation.

8

63. What would be the span from Vancouver to Fauning Island?--Three thousand two hun- dred and thirty-two knots.

64. And what is the longest span at present in existence.?There is no span of that length in existence; if you will permit me to reply to that question later I will consult my papers, as my memory is not very reliable.

65. Well, put that in afterwards, because if, as I believe is the case, there is no span at all cor- responding to the proposed one, might not that be the reason why tenderers would endeavour to cover themselves by what would otherwise be rather an extravagant estimate?—It might have weighed with them, with some of them.

66. I take it that it is proved by the experi- ment set forth on page 211 of your memorandum that there is no difficulty as to sending messages through a much longer span than that?-

Yes.

67. But it is not proved what the wear and tear on a cable stretching that enormous length is likely to be, nor what the special difficulties of manipulating it are likely to be?-Of course it may be as well to say that only one message has been sent through a cable of that great length, 4,733 nautical miles. It was a inere

C 2

20