CO885-(23-24) — Page 538

PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

Reference :-

...............C.O. 885

24 PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH NOT TO

He

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gave me the impression that he had sent a great number of people, and he had had no complaints, and everything was all right.

Did he say anything about the language spoken there?—Yes, he said Spanish was spoken, but it was a language which could be picked up very easily, and it was not absolutely essential.

You said something about a letter. Will you tell us about that? Then he showed me a letter that he had received indirectly from a man that he had sent to the Argentine. It appears this letter had been written to this man's sister-

Is this what he told you? This is what he told me.

He told you it had been written to the man's sister?--Yes, and the man's sister handed it to him.

Was it in handwriting?—Yes, in handwriting.

Did you see the name of the writer or alleged writer?-Yes, I did see the name What was the name ?-I do not remember.

You do not know the name of the man who is supposed to have written it ?-No. What was said in the letter?-It gave me to understand that it was written on his voyage out there and everything was going on all right. The conditions were decent on the boat. It was just a letter to his sister. There was one or two family affairs mentioned in it.

The next day did you sail on the "Zeelandia" from Dover?—Yes. Had you read these pamphlets?—Yes.

Did you notice, for instance, the statement-

Mr. RAEBURN: I take objection to the leading questions my friend is asking. The MAGISTRATE : If we do not do it this way, it will take some time. He must take each document and say, Did you read it all through? I think it is an objection which can be easily overcome by lengthening the case. If you like it put in a more general way-

Mr. CoмYNS CARR: I founded my question by asking whether he had read them all. May I ask him if he has read the yellow one, which puts the matter most shortly? (To the witness.) Did you notice the statement at the bottom of the four or five paragraphs?—Yes.

Did you notice the one which says: "Work found for all by the State Labour Bureau "?—Yes.

Having read those pamphlets and spoken to Mr. Hetherington, did you believe that?—Yes.

If you had not believed it, would you have gone?—No.

Now I will pass over the voyage. On the 10th October, did you get to Buenos Ayres?--Yes.

Ultimately, did you arrive at the place described as the Emigrants Hotel? Yes. As my friend does not wish me to ask you anything about that I will not ask you, but the next morning where did you go?-To the Labour Bureau connected with the hotel.

Did you find there any person who could speak English? Not at first. Ultimately, did you?—Yes.

Were you accompanied by other people who had come out in the ship?—Yes, there were several.

How many Englishmen were there who came out with you on that ship?—About 11, I think.

Were you all together at the hotel ?--Yes.

Mr. COMYNS Carr: If you rule that I must only ask the general result of his inquiries I can do so, but I do submit I am entitled to have what was told him by the officials on his application. The representation in the pamphlet is not generally that there was work for all in the Argentine, but work was found for all by the State Labour Bureau, and that is the precise representation upon which I have obtained the summons.

The MAGISTRATE: can have the details.

Mr. CoмYNS Carr:

apply for work?—Yes.

You can put it in that general form, but I do not think you

If you please. (To the witness.) Did you that morning

At your own business?—Yes.

Did you get it?—No.

Did you apply again?—Yes.

How often?Twice a day generally.

How long were you there altogether?-21 days.

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Did you ever get it?—No. Apart from your own business, were you willing to accept work of other

any kind they could find you?-Yes.

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Did you notice in that booklet (page 10). "State Labour Bureau. Immediately on arrival, the immigrants are questioned as to where they wish to go, and the Labour Exchange offers to provide them with employment according to the demands received, as set down in the originals, with the amount of wages to be paid and other conditions, all of which are carefully entered in the books kept for the purpose. If there is no demand, for the time being, for the particular employment desired by the immigrant, the Bureau itself engages to find some other work for him." Did you notice that before you started?—Yes.

Did you offer to accept employment other than your own?—Yes.

Did they find you any such employment? —No.

In addition to applying at the Labour Bureau, did you make any other effort to obtain employment while you were there?-Yes.

What did you do?--I went to the Y.M.C.A. and several hotels and business houses in Buenos Ayres, also the British Consul.

Were you able to obtain employment anywhere?No.

What did you find with regard to the language?--I was given to understand

it was Spanish and it could be easily learned.

When you got there, what did you find the position was?—I should think it is

not pure Spanish, and it would take some time to get the language up, and without

knowing the language I do not think you are very much use there.

I think you, as a matter of fact, applied to the British Consul?—Yes.

I cannot ask you what he did on your behalf, but ultimately did he engage a

passage for you to be returned with others to this country?--Yes.

Mr. COMYNS CARR: I propose to ask this witness for details of the loss to which he has been put by reason of his experiences in the Argentine, and I do it because of the power under section 699 of the Merchant Shipping Act, 1894, which is headed: Application of Penalties and Costs of Prosecution. Where any Court, justice of the peace, or other magistrate, imposes a fine under this Act for which no specific application is herein provided, that Court, justice of the peace,

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or magistrate, may, if they think fit, direct the whole or any part of the fine to be applied in compensating any person for any wrong or damage which he may have sustained by the Act or default in respect of which the fine is imposed, or to be applied in or towards payment of the expenses of the proceedings.'

If you think it would not be proper at this stage to go into the question of damage, I will postpone

it.

The MAGISTRATE : I do not think it would be. You can deal with that if it becomes necessary.

Mr. COмYNS CARR: If you please. (To the witness.) Since your return did

you see an advertisement again in the " News of the World "?—Yes.

On January 18th this year, was it in the same terms as the previous one?—Yes. Did you write again to Mr. Hetherington at the address given in the advertise- ment? Yes.

In what name did you write?-Astley.

Did you receive in reply a further batch of pamphlets?—Yes.

Were they the same as you had received before?—They were practically the

same: they were slightly different.

Did they include those two? (Same handed.)—Yes.

And others similar to these you had received before?—Yes.

Cross-examined by Mr. RAEBURN,

What date did you write again to Mr. Hetherington under the name of Astley? Since I have returned.

The MAGISTRATE :

When you wrote as Astley?—I do not know the date. It was a few months ago. I wrote on the Sunday and posted it the next morning.

Is it more than a month back?—Yes.

Is it this year?—Yes.

Mr. COMYNS CARR: If my friend wants the date, the envelope in which the

reply was received is January 19th.

Mr. RAEBURN: What was your object in writing on January 19th ?-To see. if Mr. Hetherington was issuing the same pamphlets and offering the same con- ditions, and giving people the same idea generally.

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