CO885-(2-3) — Page 699

PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

Reference

C.O.885

3 PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC-

COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO

260

Legislative Council.—Singapore, October 15, 1872.

Present:

His Excellency the Governor.

The Honourabic the Officer commanding Her Majesty's Troops (Lieutenant-

Colonel Smith, 80th Regiment).

The Honourable the Judge of Penang (Sir II. Hackett).

The Honourable the Colonial Secretary (Mr. Birch).

The Honourable the Auditor-General (Mr. C. J. Irving).

The Honourable the Acting Colonial Engineer (Captain Innes, R.E.).

The Honourable F. S. Brown.

The Honourable II. A. K. Whampoa.

The Honourable J. J. Greenshields.

The Honourable Dr. Little.

The Honourable T. Shelford.

The Colonial Secretary.-1 beg to present the following papers :-

LE

Further papers respecting the management and discipline of the Prisons of the Colony in continuation those laid before Council on the 13th June, 1872."

"Report by Acting Colonial Engineer on the proposal to build a new Gaol at Singapore."

The Governor-Gentlemen, the Council is now in possession of a Report by the Acting Colonial Engineer on a proposal to build a new Goal at Singapore. [His Excellency read the Report, which showed that to sell the present Gaol and build a new one, assuming that the present site would realize 50,000 dols., would probably cost 61,000 dols. more than the scheme already proposed.] Gentlemen, I must tell you that in my opinion the amount which would be realized by the sale of the existing site is somewhat over-estimated. Taking into account the necessity of making roads into the property and a couple of bridges over that large ditch, and taking into account that a very small portion of it lies in that sort of business neighbourhood which the Chinese would be likely to take advantage of for building purposes and pay high prices for, I am inclined to think that the site of that building is not likely to fetch so much. However, I do not think that in a matter of this sort ten or twenty thousand dollars are of much account, looking to the resources we possess, and to the object we have in view. For I look upon it that is a very important matter, the introduction of improved discipline into the Gaols. You have before you Reports drawn up with great care by the Colonial Engineer, laying down a scheme for the improvement of the Gaols, and this is at a cost of 180,000 dols. The greater part of the work will be carried out at once, and it is not impossible that by next midsummer we may be prepared to occupy the new Gaol at Penang, and to move down from there all those long-sentenced prisoners whom it is thought we can deal with so much better here ;—and the same with Malacca. If, however, you think that it is better, in view of the advantages, which certainly are not small, to build a new Gaol here, which I think there is no doubt might be placed in connection with the existing Gaol at Pearl's Hill, you will have to consent to an expenditure which I should think would be some 80,000 dollars more than is proposed, and you will have, in addition, to submit to a considerable delay in the introduction of our new scheme of prison discipline. It would not, of course, in that case, be proper to spend further money on the present Gaol, nor would you grant money for that purpose, with the view of carrying out penal discipline there. In fact, the whole of our energies would have to be directed to our new Gaol, which Captain Innes says it would take at least two years to build. I doubt very much whether you would be able to occupy it at all under two years, and you would therefore have to put off the adoption of the new system for at least eighteen months longer. Now, it is a matter which I think the public at large is just as capable of deciding upon as the Government is. I place before you the facts, and at present I am really not prepared to do more than wait and listen patiently to the conclusions you may arrive at. It is somewhat unfortunate that the idea has not presented itself to us before now, because of course we have reached that period of the year when it is absolutely necessary to decide upon our future expenditure. We have before us that scheme of prison arrangement, and there is no doubt in the minds of any one that we must decide very shortly whether we shall go on with that scheme, or whether it will be better to adopt the other which has been now laid before you.

Dr. Little. I think that I perfectly concur in all the remarks that have fallen from your Excellency. I certainly think that the sum of 50,000 dols. could not be raised by selling

261

I

the ground now occupied by the Convict Gaol, for this reason, that it is not a ground where Chinese would wish to have their shops. It could only be sold for semi-detached houses with compounds, and we know very well that the rent of these would not be much. The houses opposite there rent for a very small sum of money, and if it were not for the Gaol being there, those houses would not let for nearly so much, and if you move the Gaol you remove the greater part of the attraction for people to keep shops there. therefore think that the Gaol should not be removed. The delay, again, in the introduction of the new system, I think, as your Excellency says, is a very serious thing indeed, and I certainly think that the sooner it is introduced the better. With the very large surplus we have prospectively before us of 600,000 dollars, it may perhaps be thought that we ought to be rather lavish with our friends; but we have so many calls upon us that we need to be prudent, and I think we had better do what you propose, and spend 179,000 instead of 240,000 dollars.

The Auditor-General.-Sir, the observations I made at a previous meeting of Council were made purely in a financial point of view. I was entirely unable to form an estimate of the value of the land on which the Gaol stands, and now that I see the estimate of 50,000 dollars, and it would appear that that is probably an over-estimate, the suggestion | made entirely falls to the ground; and as far as I am concerned, I think the old arrange- ment is very far preferable.

Mr. Greenshields.-Sir, I am entirely of the same opinion. Putting the financial question on one side,-which is nevertheless a very serious one,-1 think the delay, the postponing sine die of the proposed improvement in the system of the Gaol,—that alone ought to decide the Council, as I am sure that it will people outside, as to the propriety of at once proceeding with the work.

The Colonial Secretary.-Sir, I confess that at first I entertained a strong impression that it would be desirable here to build a new Gaol enfirely, because it appeared to me that there were great difficulties in making the improvements that were necessary on the present site. It would possibly require many additions which the ground before us would not admit of. But in view of the estimates put before us, my find has been made up for some time; and seeing that last Report of the Colonial Engineer, I think it would be better to make such improvements as can be made in the present buildings. I do not attach quite so much weight to the objection of postponing the improvements in discipline, because I believe that certain portions can be put immediately into effect, and those might be introduced without our waiting for any changes in the Gaol. But I am quite of opinion now that it is better to retain our present site.

The Acting Colonial Engineer.—I concur generally with the honourable members who have spoken, but there is just one point which I should like to call attention to, and that is, that the present site is a very tight fit for what is wanted to be placed upon it, and in view of the possibility of any increase in the number of convictions taking place, it is possible there may be difficulties in finding room hereafter. That is a point which I am perhaps less competent to decide upon than many present.

The Governor-Gentlemen, I am very glad of the decision that the Council have arrived at I concur in it, and I think it is not worth while to sacrifice, in view of the additional advantage of a complete establishment, the great advantage of introducing at once such a system of penal discipline throughout the three Settlements as shall make a real impression upon the criminal population. On that ground alone I have arrived at this conclusion. The Colonial Engineer has very properly brought to notice the difficulty that may arise another day in providing for an extension of the Gaol; but I may say that by paying for it, by diverting the rond at the foot of Fort Canning, we could obtain a site sufficient to enlarge it by one-fourth. Of course, if we were truck down in the middle of a town, and could not move in any direction, there might be something in the view, but as it would be quite possible to extend ourselves when necessary, I think that increases the arguments for adhering to the original plans.

(128)

3 X

ما له ومادة