CO885-(19-20) — Page 365

PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

Reference :-

LLC.O. 885

20 PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO

144

SIR ELLIOT LEWIS: Does your Committee deal with animal diseases? LORD CROMER: To a certain extent.

LORD LUCAS: Yes, the reference includes that.

LORD CROMER: As far as South Africa is concerned that is a particularly important point, because it is more especially in tropical Africa that all these blood- sucking insects exist.

SIR ELLIOT LEWIS: The more information we can get the better we shall be pleased. At the present time we have rather a stringent quarantine against any- thing going out from India.

SIR NEWTON MOORE: Might I suggest that, instead of the resolution which the Premier of New South Wales has proposed, he should make a proposal that the outline given in paragraphs 2 and 3 of this scheme meet with the approval of the Conference?

MR. MCGOWEN: I thought of that, but a gentleman here offered me a proposal and asked me whether I would propose something of this sort. I have been trying to alter it, and I have altered it now. I will submit this altered proposition: "That this meeting is of opinion that the proposal to obtain and disseminate information of a scientific and useful nature tending to prevent the spread of pests and diseases to the various States and Dominions of the Empire would be highly advantageous, and that steps should be taken to obtain the adhesion of the Dominions which are not represented here to-day." The High Commissioner for New Zealand says that he would leave the latter part of the clause out.

"

SIR WILLIAM HÄLL JONES: I would say Obtain the adhesion of the Dominions interested."

MR. MCGOWEN: I will leave that part out, so that it would read " Would be highly advantageous, and that steps should be taken to obtain the adhesion of the Dominions and States interested." I wanted to omit "disease" because that would

in restrict it; but you might be able to find out something that would help us, your researches into these things, with regard to the cattle.

*

LORD LUCAS: I would like to find some words that would cover agri- culture," and that would not technically have anything to do with cattle.

SIR NEWTON MOORE: If we are going into the question of diseases we are going to open a very big question indeed. For instance, you will have surra in India. I think you had better confine yourself to insect pests that affect plant life.

LORD CROMER: This paper that has been circulated confines itself to insect pests.

SIR ELLIOT LEWIS: I do not think the resolution that has been moved quite goes far enough. It does not say that the Dominions and States will restrict the giving of information to the Central Committee.

LORD CROMER: The Central Committee desires to have the information. Diseases is the word, is it not?

11

SIR ELLIOT LEWIS: I would rather Mr. McGowen accepted paragraphs 2 and 3 of this paper that is before us.

MR. MALAN: That does not cover the point, because the point limiting it to plant diseases is in paragraph 1,

LORD CROMER: I think this meeting was confined practically to questions relating to the diseases of agriculture and horticulture, and that does not bring in human beings.

LORD LUCAS: What does the word “agriculture" cover? MR. MIDDLETON: It covers all cattle diseases.

LORD CROMER: This resolution seems to be all right now; will you allow me to read it to you? "That this meeting is of opinion that the proposal to obtain and disseminate information of a scientific and useful nature tending to prevent the spread of pests and diseases in agriculture and horticulture to the various States and Dominions of the Empire would be highly advantageous, and that steps should be taken to obtain the adhesion of the Dominions which are interested." "I think that really covers the whole ground.

MR. MALAN: “ Agriculture is a very wide term. Certainly, as it stands it would include animal diseases also.

LORD LUCAS: Are you against it including that?

MR. MALAN: I do not think that the two things really go together. I think the Committee would do more efficient work if it dealt with plant diseases and left the animal diseases to the Veterinary Department. We, in the Union of South Africa, have got two Acts now dealing with agricultural diseases; the one deals

145

with plants and the other with animals. We have got different regulations, and they are adminstered differently; in fact, in every way they are different. If we are going to do useful work, I do not think we should complicate matters by intro- ducing animals here. Let us confine ourselves to plants and vegetable produce.

LORD CROMER: This might be read in every way-" pests and diseases in agriculture and horticulture." It depends whether you include animals in agriculture.

MR. MALAN: Why not say "plant and horticulture pests"?

SIR ELLIOT LEWIS: For my own part I would go for both. Any information is valuable.

MR. MIDDLETON: Some of the most important entomological information which is required, is in regard to animal diseases. Some of the information which we are most anxious to get just now in England is entomological.

LORD CROMER: I do not see how the fact that you have two different Depart- ments and two different ways of dealing with it can be affected by this measure, because you see it is merely to circulate information. It does not do more than that.

MR. MALAN: If it is clearly understood that you want to cover animal diseases also, say so, and express that clearly, and then the different Departments of the different Governments will know. But I foresee that, if it is sent to South Africa, it will be interpreted in one way, and if it is sent to Australia it may be inter- preted in a different way. Therefore I would like the Committee to say what they inean. If we mean to cover both animal and plant diseases, let us say so.

SIR NEWTON MOORE: May I ask whether this Committee is not particularly appointed to deal with questions affecting insects and plants?

LORD CROMER: The original Entomological Committee was appointed to deal with pests and animals too; in fact, that is one of our principal objects. But when you talk of this Committee that is met here to-day, it was stated in the paper that was circulated that only insect pests were contemplated. But as far as our General Committee is concerned, the Committee which Lord Crewe appointed, it deals with both animal diseases and insect pests.

SIR NEWTON MOORE: If that is included, it goes outside the proposal sub- mitted to-day, which only deals with plants and insects.

LORD LUCAS: Does not it rather come to this, as to the question of capacity, that, first of all, the Entomological Research Committee deals with both categories; and, secondly, there are all the arrangements that exist in the various Colonies and Dominions for supplying information of both sorts. If the Entomo- logical Committee is capable of dealing with both-and we know it is, because it is its usual work to deal with both animal diseases and plant diseases—and if the various Dominions and Colonies concerned can supply information both with regard to animal diseases and plant diseases, would not it then be a good thing that we should so draft our resolution as to cover both? But if, on the other hand, there is any difficulty on either of those two points, then perhaps it would be better, as this is only the first step, to take only the plant diseases. But I rather gather from what has been said to-day, that it would be perfectly possible for the Dominions concerned to supply the necessary information under both heads, and we know the Entomological Committee can deal with it under both heads because that is its ordinary work at present. Therefore, if that is so, may not we so word our reso- tion that it would meet Mr. Malan's point, so that it would cover both animal and plant diseases?

MR. MALAN: Instead of using the terms " agriculture " and " horticulture," could not we say "animal and plant diseases," " tending to prevent the spread of animal and plant diseases "?

LORD CROMER: "Tending to prevent the spread by pests of diseases both in animals and plants."

MR. MCGOWEN: That meets with my approval, because I look at it in this way, that if you can give us information that will be useful to us in dealing with plants, and, if at the same time you can give us information that will be useful to us in dealing with animals, we should be very foolish not to accept the latter information as well.

SIR ELLIOT LEWIS: We can collect it just as easily with regard to the one as we can with regard to the other. The only thing is, that we must get some information from our entomologists and the other information from our Veterinary Department.

2275+

K