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the way of agriculture and fruit-growing, F welcome the proposal which has been made to-day, and feel sure that it will commend itself to the Governments of Australia generally.

MR. BLANDFORD (Minister of Agriculture, Newfoundland): I should like to say, on behalf of Newfoundland, that we are now developing a country that is practically new, and in moving ahead it has been deemed wise by the Government that we should borrow, shall I say, practically all the information that it is feasible to get from other British Colonies. I might mention in particular that Canada has been supplying us with a lot of information. Potato canker has made its appear ance in our Colony, and we are taking steps with reference to anything coming from Europe and the British Isles, as we understand that the disease came from this side of the Atlantic. At all events, we are taking what precautions we can in that direction. Personally, I feel sure that the proposition that has been put forward by your Lordship will meet with the approval of almost all the Colonies.

As far as my Government is concerned, I have no authority at the present moment to say anything with regard to the payment of money, but I certainly feel they would be only too pleased to pay their proportion of the expense of a Central Bureau. It is badly needed, and if we could get information from this central organisation we should be able to do very good work.

MR. DUFF (Minister of Agriculture, Ontario): I occupy a somewhat different position from the other gentlemen who are here this morning, from the fact that I represent a Province within our Dominion, and it is the Dominion that has the status in the Colonial Office. But I desire to say that it was the interest I take in the subject, and the work that we are doing ourselves, that led me to come here. At the same time I was in hopes that possibly the Minister of Agriculture for the Dominion or someone representing the Dominion Government would be here to speak for the Dominion as such. Of course, my position is a very limited one, but I desire to say I am delighted to have heard what has been said with reference to the object in view, and I think a move in this direction cannot fail to be of great benefit to the British Isles and the Empire at large, and of very great benefit to the Overseas Dominions. If there is no one here representing the Dominion, I shall be very glad to take on myself the responsibility of forwarding to the Honorable Sidney Fisher an account of what has been done, and an outline of the scheme that has been

pro- posed, because I think it cannot fail to be of the greatest possible interest to British people the world over.

MR. MALAN (Minister for Education, Union of South Africa): I have only just come from the meeting of another Committee, and I would like to know a little more of what has been done before I express an opinion.

LORD CROMER: The proposal is to form a Central Bureau in London which will be a means of communicating information about insect pests and other objects of entomological interest throughout the whole Empire. There would be some very trifling cost involved which we put at a minimum of £500 and a maximum of £1,000 a year, and that, divided up amongst India and the other Dominions would come to a very trifling sum for each of them, and practically all those who have spoken have been warmly in favour of the scheme that has been outlined. Would you like to express an opinion on it now?

LORD. LUCAS: Perhaps I might supplement the information Lord Cromer has already given by saying that the intention is simply to disseminate information and nothing else.

LORD CROMER: Yes, it is merely to disseminate information in order to form the basis of any action taken by the Executive or Legislative Authority.

MR. MALAN: I have read the paper that was circulated and have compared it with an Agricultural Pests Bill which we passed during our first Session, and I find there is nothing inconsistent with the scheme as laid down here with our Act. I believe this will be a very useful body to collect information and send it round.

LORD CROMER: It would not interfere in any way with any executive or legislative authority in any part of the British Dominions. It is simply a means of disseminating information in order to guard against any pests that may be intro- duced, and also, as Mr. Lefroy has pointed out, to prevent unnecessary measures being taken against insects which are not harmful, and which may even be of good.

SIR ELLIOT LEWIS: May I supplement what I said by saying that in our

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early experience we found that by the use of various sprays we were killing the parasites that were doing very much good?

LORD CROMER: One of the difficulties we have had in this country is the extraordinary difficulty of procuring really trained entomologists. I do not know whether anything of that kind happens in the Dominions; I do not know what instruction is given in entomology in the various colleges and universities, but that is one of our greatest difficulties. In the United States, on the other hand, the instruction of entomology has gone ahead very much more rapidly.

I think I have asked everyone for his opinion now, and I think I may say there is a general unanimity as regards the principle of the scheme, and the question now is what action should be taken?

MR. MCGOWEN: I should like to submit a resolution, my Lord. I take it from the fact that this little resolution was drafted and placed in my hands that it is the desire of your Lordship and the other members of the Committee that there should be some expression of opinion with regard to the utility of the scheme so far as we have heard it this morning. I therefore beg leave to propose :-

That this meeting is of opinion that the proposal to obtain and dis- seminate important information of a scientific and useful nature to the various States and Dominions of the Empire is one that would be highly advantageous and should be adopted, and that steps should be taken to obtain the adhesion of the Dominions which are not represented here."

I move that resolution, but I do not know whether you require anything to be said in its favour. I am not going to make a speech, but I do know this, that so far as Australia is concerned, if we could receive information that would enable us to cope with one or two of the pests that are troubling the State of New South Wales, and that largely come from the other States, such as the tick pest and the potato blight that Sir Elliot Lewis has referred to, I would not hesitate to incur the expense of sending an expert out there, if I thought there was a reasonable hope of his success- fully dealing with the matter. I have been informed-and I have no reason to doubt the information that the Agricultural Department of the State of New South Wales is very highly qualified; but with all that I cannot get away from the fact that in the multitude of councillors there is wisdom, and that in these older and more populous civilisations that come within the scope of the work of this Com- mittee there is a possibility of getting much better information than we can in the extremes of Australia. I therefore think it will meet with general approval, and the amount of money spent will be more than compensated a thousand times over, if we are able, even by our present methods, to prevent destruction that can be proved to be unnecessary so far as the settlers are concerned. I just want to express the opinion that when we can obtain information of such a highly scientific nature, we should agree to the proposal of the Committee, which has met with our approval here to-day and take further steps to obtain the approval of Victoria and the other States not represented here. I readily believe, from what I know of those gentlemen, that they will welcome the information at such a slight cost that is going to be given to them and that they will without any hesitation comply with the principle of the LORD LUCAS: Before the resolution is seconded, may I make a suggestion, namely, that after the words important information of a scientific and useful nature we should insert the words " Tending to prevent the spread of disease in agriculture and horticulture."

resolution.

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MR. MCGOWEN: I thought that was unnecessary, because that is what the Committee's work is.

LORD LUCAS: It is only because this resolution will be read by other people who will not know that fact. It is a very small point.

LORD CROMER: There is the question of disease amongst human beings. A great many of these insects carry disease to human beings, and you do not want to exclude them, do you?

LORD LUCAS: I did not know we were discussing that point at all. SIR ELLIOT LEWIS: What about animals?

LORD LUCAS: They would be covered by " agriculture," would not they? SIR ELLIOT LEWIS: The wider it is the better. I thought it was really limited to insect pests.

LORD LUCAS: Could we say " Tending to prevent the spread of pests and

disease "?

PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

Reference :-

TTLE C.O. 885

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20 PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

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143

e found that by the use of various sprays we were killing the

doing very much good?

ER: One of the difficulties we have had in this country is the ulty of procuring really trained entomologists. I do not know of that kind happens in the Dominions; I do not know what in entomology in the various colleges and universities, but that est difficulties. In the United States, on the other hand, the iology has gone ahead very much more rapidly.

asked everyone for his opinion now, and I think I may say there ity as regards the principle of the scheme, and the question now d be taken?

N: I should like to submit a resolution, my Lord. I take it this little resolution was drafted and placed in my hands that ur Lordship and the other members of the Committee that there ession of opinion with regard to the utility of the scheme so far this morning. I therefore beg leave to propose :-

his meeting is of opinion that the proposal to obtain and dis-

ortant information of a scientific and useful nature to the s and Dominions of the Empire is one that would be highly and should be adopted, and that steps should be taken to obtain of the Dominions which are not represented here."

on, but I do not know whether you require anything to be said

'not going to make a speech, but I do know this, that so far as ed, if we could receive information that would enable us to cope he pests that are troubling the State of New South Wales, and om the other States, such as the tick pest and the potato blight

s has referred to, I would not hesitate to incur the expense of it there, if I thought there was a reasonable hope of his success- e matter. I have been informed-and I have no reason to doubt at the Agricultural Department of the State of New South

qualified; but with all that I cannot get away from the fact le of councillors there is wisdom, and that in these older and sations that come within the scope of the work of this Com- ssibility of getting much better information than we can in tralia. I therefore think it will meet with general approval, noney spent will be more than compensated a thousand times even by our present methods, to prevent destruction that can be sary so far as the settlers are concerned. I just want to express n we can obtain information of such a highly scientific nature, ie proposal of the Committee, which has met with our approval further steps to obtain the approval of Victoria and the other d here. I readily believe, from what I know of those gentlemen, le the information at such a slight cost that is going to be given y will without any hesitation comply with the principle of the

: Before the resolution is seconded, may I make a suggestion, he words "

important information of a scientific and useful nsert the words "Tending to prevent the spread of disease in culture."

: I thought that was unnecessary, because that is what the

: It is only because this resolution will be read by other people at fact. It is a very small point.

R: There is the question of disease amongst human beings,

e insects carry disease to human beings, and you do not want

>u ?

I did not know we were discussing that point at all.

WIS: What about animals?

They would be covered by " agriculture," would not they? EWIS: The wider it is the better. I thought it was really Could we say "Tending to prevent the spread of pests and