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I have also a letter from Mr. Motherwell, Minister of Agriculture of Saskatchewan, in which, after regretting that he is unable to be present, he says: "The Department of Agriculture for Saskatchewan will be pleased to co-operate in this important matter and assist in giving effect to any practical conclusions arrived at with respect to insect pests injurious to agriculture and horticulture." I think that is all I have to say.

LORD CROMER: Gentlemen,-Before cominencing the proceedings, I should like to say a word or two in explanation of the genesis of this Committee, which is mentioned in the paper which has been already circulated. I do not think I need say anything about the very great and growing importance of entomology. Recent scientific discoveries show very clearly that the blood-sucking insects are a most fertile source of conveying disease both to human beings and animals, and we constantly get evidence from all parts of the world showing how very necessary from an economic point of view it is to combat the ravages which are made by insect pests in various countries. It was animated by these considerations that Lord Crewe, about two years ago, appointed this Committee, of which he did me the honour to ask me to be Chairman, the members of which consist of experts, both in entomology and in tropical medicine. At present, we dispose of a revenue of about £2,000 a year, of which £1,000 is contributed by the West African Colonies, and £1,000 of which is given by the Imperial Government as representing the State- aided Protectorates in East Africa. I may also mention that we have been very largely assisted by the generosity of Mr. Andrew Carnegie, who has given us £1,000 a year for three years in order to enable three young men to go to the United States, where the study of entomology is perhaps more advanced than it is in this country and in other parts of the Empire. Originally, the scope of our activities was confined to tropical Africa, although we kept in touch with South Africa on the one side and with Egypt and the Soudan on the other side. But naturally what always happens when Committees of this sort are started happened in this case; various suggestions were made to enlarge the sphere of our action, and, as a matter of fact, arrangements have been made to co-operate with the various Crown Colonies in the carrying out of the work. It was thought that the presence in London at this moment of such a large number of distinguished men from the self-governing Dominions would be a very fitting opportunity for enlisting their sympathies, and inviting their co-operation. I need hardly say that a more truly Imperial work can scarcely be imagined than this. I may add that Mr. Lefroy, the Entomologist of the Government of India, is here to-day, and that he will explain the matter in greater detail than I can; and I may tell you that the Indian Authorities attach very special importance to the co-operation of the Colonies. Put very briefly, our proposal is this, that a central organisation shall be established in London, and that it should be the means of transmitting information on entomological subjects to the various parts of the Empire. I need hardly say that the rôle of the Committee will be confined to transmitting information, and nothing more. This informa- tion, when obtained, will, without doubt, enable the various Dominions who think it necessary to legislate to do so with a greater knowledge of the facts than would otherwise be possible. We think that this Committee is a suitable organisation because it is situated in the Metropolis of the Empire, and, moreover, it is in constant communication with the very large Natural History Museum which exists in South Kensington for dealing with these matters. I may also mention that our present scheme is neither very costly nor very ambitious, as Mr. Lefroy will be able to explain There will to you, and we shall be able to carry it out for a very small sum of money. have to be a slight increase of expenditure, because the Secretary, Mr. Marshall, who is already overworked, will have to have some further help; but I think we can do all we wish to do at an extra cost of about £500 a year, which, divided amongst India and the other Dominions, would come to a very trifling sum each. I therefore commend the scheme very strongly to the representatives of the Dominions who are here to-day; and I will now ask Mr. Lefroy to be good enough to explain the work to you in somewhat greater detail.

ago

MR. MAXWELL H. LEFROY (Imperial Entomologist for India): Some time I had to prepare a scheme for India; and in preparing this scheme our greatest difficulty lay in knowing what plant imports to keep out of the country which might bring in disease. We had two courses before us: to try and find out what dangers existed outside India which we had to avoid, or to keep out every- thing which might in any way bring in disease. Our problem is the problem of most parts of the Empire, but a great many parts of the Empire are ahead of India,

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in that they have already regulations which keep out a great many plant imports. The general principle which is adopted is, I think, to keep out everything that may in any way bring in any form of insect pest. My proposal is to substitute for that the transmission of accurate information regarding the actual pests occurring in all these countries, so that instead of blindly legislating against every- thing, it would be possible to discriminate between the imports which are safe and those imports which are definitely known to be capable of bringing in insect pests. The foundation of that scheme is, of course, accurate knowledge of the insect pests of each country. We have been working for eight years in India on the subject, and we have now a list of the injurious insects of India. With some small altera- tion that would convey to every entomologist in the Empire the dangers which he has to fear from India, and against which he must legislate, giving him the power to let in practically everything from India, but excluding a small proportion which are definitely dangerous. If we in India had had that sort of information from the other parts of the Empire, we should not have had blindly to legislate. My proposal is we should attempt to get this information; that it should come through this central bureau in London, and from there be distributed to every part of the Empire which is concerned. The detailed working is simply this that the entomologist would prepare a meno- randum showing that in his Colony cotton had such and such pests, that apple had such and such pests, and so on, going right through the plants. If he was not able to say that he knew all the pests, he would at least say what the pests were of which he had definite knowledge. The other Colonies would then know exactly what the dangers were, and what they had to guard against. I have a simple memorandum here which has been prepared for one crop in India, and it shows the actual information that is asked for is such as could be supplied in most cases by the Agricultural Departments at present in existence in most Colonies, and that it would involve very little work indeed. In some cases the information is not I think that gives the gist of available, and the statement would simply say so. the proposal. It really is a comparatively small thing, but it leads to one possibility which I think ought to be kept in mind. It might appear that when we have got all this information the work would cease, but I think it would lead inevitably to a further very important development, and that is the exchange of information dealing with beneficial parasitic insects. We have in India a caterpillar which does us a great deal of harm, but we know it is checked by a parasite. That parasite we know does not occur in Egypt. If Egypt had that information it might import that parasite, and so do the country a very great service. That sort of thing can be indefinitely multiplied, because for every one of those pests there are para- sites; and I look forward to the future of this scheme as being eventually an exchange of parasites, and things of that sort.

MR. MCGOWEN (Premier of New South Wales): My Lord, I have only to say that I consider the object you have in view would be of immense advantage to the people of Australia, particularly to the State of New South Wales; and it has the further advantage, as you have clearly shown, that the cost will be infinitesimal. At the present time we have, I think, 32 inspectors engaged in New South Wales dealing with these pests. They have the power under our legislation to make any regulations and some of them are very drastic-for the keeping out of pests, either by import or with regard to the bad management of their orchards. We have latterly been up against the Irish blight in the potato-growing districts; so that, as far as I am individually concerned, I think we can readily fall in with your sugges- tion. As I take it, you gentlemen here in the Colonial Office, in the home Govern- ment, in India, and other parts of the Dominion, are qualified to make certain enquiries and obtain the very best information, and then when you get that informa- tion you disseminate it to the whole of the communities in the British Empire. We welcome that because we think it would be of considerable utility to us.

am concerned I readily acquiesce.

As far as

LORD CROMER: Are your 32 inspectors trained entomologists? MR. MCGOWEN: Yes. I have their Report here. We have scientific and entomological classes. The State is divided into districts to embrace all the fruit- growing areas, and the Report states that during the last year 1,300 notices were served requiring the destruction of fruit, or the bandaging and treatment of apple, pear, and other fruit trees.

LORD CROMER: I may take it from you that the Government of New South Wales will be inclined to fall in with this suggestion?

* See page 158.

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MR. MCGOWEN: Yes, certainly.

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SIR WILLIAM HALL JONES (High Commissioner for New Zealand): My Lord, I am very pleased to see that this matter has been taken up, because, as mentioned by the last speaker, we who come from Australasia know that the Colonies have been working in this direction for a great many years past. New Zealand, as well as most of the States of Australia, have inspectors who are thoroughly trained to cope with the work they have to do, and they have endeavoured to keep down, as far as practicable, any pests that exist in their district or locality; and we also try to keep from our country pests which are likely to be injurious. A special Act was passed some years ago providing for the absolute prohibition of certain classes of fruits which were found to be infested with these pests, and, as was suggested by the first speaker, the entomologists and the inspectors have taken every possible means to eradicate these troubles. I may say that, as far as my knowledge goes, both in our own country and in Australia, they have met with great success, owing to the energetic and thorough manner in which they have carried out their work. But the interchange of information between the different parts of the Empire would be of great service, and that is the main object I suppose we have in view to day. So far as finance goes, I have no authority to commit my Government, but I am sure they will recognise the advantage of obtaining information which will be valuable, and I have no doubt they will favourably consider the question of paying their fair share of any expense attaching to it. I should be glad to see the proposal given effect to, because I believe it would be of advantage to all parts of the Empire.

MR. MCGOWEN: May I just interpose this statement, my Lord? that a Committee like your Lordship's Committee can help us in this direction. Whenever regulations, restrictions, or orders are made for the destruction of certain plants and trees, the people whose property is to be destroyed always question the capacity of This is not the right way to do it." Now, what the inspector. They always say: strikes me, as far as we in Australia are concerned, is that if we are backed up by the information that will be given to us by this Committee, we shall know exactly what to do. We are desirous of obtaining every possible benefit from the researches As Mr. Lefroy said, we may be destroying that are made in regard to plant life. when we ought to be improving our orchards, and those who are troubled with the pests have a legitimate reason for complaining, when we make such drastic regula- tions on the report of the inspectors. But if our hands are strengthened by the researches of the Committee, of course we are in a better position to resist those complaints, and there is no doubt that we may be able to preserve the capital to the men who have invested it in their trees by not calling upon them to destroy them.

LORD CROMER: You will understand that we are entirely limiting ourselves to the interchange of information, and nothing else. It is confined entirely to that. SIR ELLIOT LEWIS (Premier of Tasmania): We in Tasmania have an Agri- cultural Department, and we have skilled entomologists and inspectors, the latter of whom have not the same scientific knowledge as the entomologists, and who act under them. We have as many pests as exist in other parts of the Empire, and we are always fighting them; we are always trying to ascertain the best means of coping with them. I am sure the knowledge which your Lordship's Committee may be able to collect and send to us will be most useful to our Agricultural Department, and possibly the experiments that we are conducting under that Department may be useful to England and to other parts of the Empire where pests exist or may be introduced. Mr. McGowen has mentioned the outbreak of Irish blight which has occurred practically right through Australia during the last two or three years; and we are trying to cope with that-and so far successfully-by spraying. There is a considerable difference of opinion as to the most efficient and the most economic But while we are experimenting, other countries are experimenting spray to use. too, and an interchange of the results of those experiments must be most beneficial to all. At the present moment all that our Department has to guide it are scientific publications and so on, and they cannot be so useful and so practical as the informa- tion that your Lordship's Committee can disseminate. On the part of my State, I shall be very glad to fall in with the suggestion, and readily agree to the inter- change of information such as is suggested, and to make a contribution, which, no doubt, will be a very small one, to the general expenses of this scheme.

MR. KIRKPATRICK (Agent-General for South Australia): My Lords and gentlemen. I was instructed by my Government to attend to-day two Confer- ences at 10 o'clock this morning and at 2.30 this afternoon. I attended at 10 o'clock this morning the first Conference, and rushed away from it to come here at 11.30, so that I have not had very much time to consider this matter, nor have I had the

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advantage of hearing the Chairman's remarks, or even the preliminary remarks of the gentlemen who, I presume, moved some motion, so that I am rather in the dark as to where we stand at present. Then, again, I am not a member of a Govern- Therefore I cannot commit ment; I am the Agent-General for a Government.

my Government to any particular definite scheme or definite agreement. can on this But I shall be very glad to gather all the information I

very important subject, and forward it to the Government, who, I have no doubt, will consult their experts out there, because I am not an expert on this question. After that I have no doubt they will send a reply dealing with the matter, and I shall be delighted if it is favourable.

MR. MCGOWEN: The question is this, that an additional expenditure will necessarily be incurred in the expansion of the work and the researches of this Com- mittee, which may involve something like £1,000 a year. If the Australian Colonies desire to reap the benefit of these researches, and if the Committee disseminate the knowledge to them, are they willing to bear their share of that expenditure?

LORD CROMER: The figure I mentioned was £500 a year. MR. MCGOWEN : I only put it at £1,000 to be safe.

LORD CROMER: Just so. The tendency of all these things is to rather enlarge.

MR. MCGOWEN: I did not want to understate it. I will say from £500 to £1,000.

LORD CROMER: That is about what it will really amount to.

MR. MCGOWEN: We want something that will give us information about the tick and the caterpillar and the potato blight. Tasmania wants that particularly, because they have suffered considerably from it. It will be worth ten times that amount to us if we can get the information.

LORD CROMER: I think Mr. Lefroy could give us some extraordinary infor- mation about the damage caused in India by insect pests amounting to millions a year-something gigantic.

As a

SIR NEWTON MOORE (Agent-General for Western Australia): Although I am present in the same capacity as my colleague who has just preceded me, I do not think I need have any hesitation in committing my Government to the small expendi- ture that will be incurred in transmitting this very valuable information. matter of fact, it is a subject in which I have taken a considerable amount of interest. Some years ago we recognised the necessity for co-operation with various parts of the world, not only the British Empire, in dealing with the question of pests; and so far back as 1904, when I first was Minister of Agriculture, we entered into arrangements with California to secure the services of Mr. Compare, who was successful in securing parasites in various portions of the world which have rendered very great service indeed to Western Australia. I can only say for my own part that I welcome the proposal which has been made, and feel sure that the information that will be trans- mitted to the various parts of the British Dominions will be of the very greatest value. Reference has been made to the Irish blight. That is a question which is a very important one in Australia at the present time. I may say that the regulations in regard to the importation of potato seed into the Commonwealth at the present moment do not allow us to import seed from England. I had instructions to obtain 500 tons of seed potatoes, but I was not able to amply with the conditions under which they were admitted to Australia. Western Australia iš practically free from At the same potato blight, but we are anxious to obtain every information about it. time, we do not want to take up the attitude, as has been pointed out by Mr. McGowen, of prohibiting, when by some proper system of inspection or treatment the seed might be allowed to land. As far as we are concerned the measures adopted in Western Australia to deal with insect pests inimical to plant life are really divided into two branches, namely, prevention of entry and the internal field work. Naturally, the question of entry is a very sore point, very often, between the various So far as the codlin moth is concerned, we, in Western Australia, are frec from it, but we have had to tackle a question which was also referred to by Mr. McGowen, namely, the question of destroying orchards. Five years ago we took very strong measures, which received a certain amount of very hostile criticism. We destroyed all the trees in Western Australia that showed any sign of codlin moth, with the result that to-day we have no sign of codlin moth in the State at all. So that speaking for a young State, but one which we hope will be big with possibilities in

States.