CO885-(19-20) — Page 258

PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

P

Reference :-

C.O.

| ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE

BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC-

COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO

885

20 PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

86

the same complaint coming from the Uasin Gishu. The question of policing would have to be enquired into. It seemed a practical suggestion, and was not an expensive

one.

Mr. Notley said it was a question of getting the right men.

In reply to a question by Mr. Watkins, Mr. Notley said that any natives who assisted the police in recovering cattle were rewarded. As a rule the reward was not a large amount.

In reply to Mr. Anderson His Excellency said that the question of employing white and specially-trained policemen would be considered. The Commissioner of Police would consider all these matters, and report upon them.

(4) Regulation of squatters and Kaffir farming.-Regarding the regulation of squatters and Kaffir farming, His Excellency said that this question had already been discussed at considerable length, and that there seemed to be a desire to have some restriction.

Dr. Atkinson did not think that one universal law would meet the requirements of the whole country.

Mr. Anderson said that everyone would agree that every native on a private farm must be under the control of the farmer.

His Excellency said that one of the main difficulties of Government was to get farmers to decide as to a form of agreement. In many cases the agreements were one-sided. He thought Government should draw up a form of agreement which the people must accept.

Mr. Hollis mentioned that a short time ago a form of agreement had been drawn up by one association in which it was stipulated that every man, woman, and child should work ten hours a day on the farm, and that if they did not agree to these terms they should be turned out. Several natives had been compensated by farmers, which meant a loss to them. Subject to native rights, he thought they ought to endeavour to compensate natives, and come to an agreement. He quite agreed that the control should lie with the settler. As regards the buying up of all rights of native tenants, before the land was sold by Government, he did not think the home He authorities would allow the whole of the cost to be placed upon Government. fancied most of the settlers would say now: "We do not intend to pay!" They would say the Government could pay although the laws did not include that pro- vision.

Mr. Anderson asked whether this had not been recommended by the Land

Board?

His Excellency : By whom?

Mr. Anderson: By the occupier.

His Excellency said that natives must be employed on farms. He also referred to certain clauses of the old labour agreement, which had been drawn up. He did not think this question was so pressing in farms up country as it was in the Nairobi He was inclined to District. It was an absolute block in the case of some farms. think that serious consideration should be taken of this, and that the landowner should be given full control. He also referred to the suggestion made by Mr. MacDonald only last year with regard to dogs.

Mr. MacDonald said that certain settlers should make use of dogs in their kraals at night.

Mr. Cameron said it was a great protection to have dogs in the boma. Mr. Hill was also in favour of dogs being used in this way.

(5) Collectice punishment.-Referring to the question of collective punishment, Mr. Anderson said it was not a usual British custom to punish collectively, but His Excellency, in his opening remarks, had drawn their attention to the fact that there was a very great danger, if they did not conduct trial by jury in a better way, that they collectively were going to be punished. He went on to say that supposing cattle were stolen from him, and they passed through a chief's district, his experience was that the cattle, especially if branded, could not pass through without the native District Authorities knowing it. He held that if strange cattle passed through a native district the chief was sure to have it reported to him, no matter whether they were cattle belonging to Europeans or cattle belonging to natives. If strange cattle did go through a district, and the chief was asked why it was not reported to Govern- ment, he could not make any excuse. If it was not reported on the second occasion it happened the chief should be deposed. He contended that the chief should be

87

held responsible. Once the chiefs realised that they were going to be punished a great deal of this stock stealing would be put down.

Dr. Atkinson did not think they could ask that all the Wa-Kikuyu should be punished. When a stock theft was traced to a section of the tribe a fine should be imposed upon that section. Where a conviction had been made it might be possible to inflict a fine upon the family instead of only punishing the individual.

(6) Sentences.-Mr. Watkins said he would like to refer to the question of sentences. The sentences which were being imposed he considered far too light. Where there was a previous conviction the punishment should be as severe as possible. His Excellency stated that he had already referred to sentences.

Mr. Hollis read the relative section from the Collective Punishments Ordinance. With regard to Dr. Atkinson's remarks he (Mr. Hollis) believed that most of the thefts were committed by natives who had practically left the tribe, and it would be unfair if one boy committed a theft for the whole family to be punished. If the boy had taken the stock to his family they would have to be punished under the Ordinance. Mr. Anderson said he would like that every movement of strange cattle, whether stolen or not stolep, should be reported. Regarding the question of sentences, he was not in favour of heavy sentences being imposed, though the association he repre- sented, he thought, on the whole, were. Government should rather try and prevent crime.

His Excellency said they had endeavoured to thrash out everything, and regard- ing such subjects as they had discussed, and on which they apparently were in agree- ment, he would certainly take early steps, such as the law of trespass and the law of vagrancy. He would also take steps with regard to the Pass Law and branding. The questions of secret service and policing he would naturally hold in abeyance until they had been thoroughly investigated. As regards collective punishment he thought this could only be imposed where the thefts could be traced to a tribe or section of u tribe. He thought that the suggestions put forward as to reporting the movement of strange cattle were quite practicable. He would desire to thank the deputation for coming to meet him, and for the very reasonable way in which they had discussed the whole question.

In reply to Mr. Anderson, His Excellency said that the Press and each member of the deputation would be furnished with a copy of the report of the proceedings.

The meeting closed with a vote of thanks to His Excellency, which was proposed by Mr. Watkins.

21966

SIR,

(No. 539.)

No. 45.

EAST AFRICA PROTECTORATE.

THE SECRETARY OF STATE to THE GOVERNOR.

Downing Street, 28 September, 1911.

I HAVE the honour to transmit to you, for consideration in connexion with my despatch, No. 471, of the 29th of August,* the accompanying copy of a memo- ?randum by Mr. Stockman, the Chief Veterinary Officer of the Board of Agriculture, upon the Game Warden's Report which accompanied your despatch, No 318, of the 6th of June.t

Enclosure in No. 45.

I have, &c.,

MEMORANDUM BY Mr. STOCKMAN.

L. HARCOURT.

Firstly, I would like to state what seems to me would have been the best way to arrive at a fairly accurate finding regarding the vexed question of big game in relation to agriculture. I think reports from at least three officials, each dealing particularly with the actual question as it affects his own department and according to his expert knowledge, would have been more helpful:1) the Game Warden;

• No. 44.

† No. 39.

231