CO885-(18-19) — Page 761

PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

Reference :-

C.O.885

19 PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

| COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO

ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC-

138

21 July 1908.

CCROWS

CROWN AGENTS ENQUIRY COMMITTEE:

Miss M. E. Boppy.

shall be the maximum salary and what shall be the in- crement? That is just what I do not think it is exactly.

3111. Is anything written down, can you tell me?— Not that I know of-not anything to go by.

3112. Would all the ladies like to know where they stand, and to have some fixed scale?--I think it woulti be satisfactory.

3113, On what principle now are the increments made-After getting up to £150 it is uncertain. There was only one head lady first of all. There was a head lady in the Correspondence Department. but taking a different position there. perhaps. Now she takes a more important position, and her salary now. I believe, has just been written down. I hardly know whether I should say authoritatively, but it is sup posed to be £200, although she does not get that.

3114. Why I suppose' she will get it.

3115. Why does sh- not get it?-That is a thing we do not quité know.

3116. (Mr. Gibson.) Is she the deputy head?--No. she is the head.

3117. (Mr. Harris) Is she n relation to yourself?-- Yes, she is my step-sister.

3118. (Chairman.) Why should not she get the £200 a year? What makes you think that is the rate of salary?—It was suggested,

3119. (Mr. Gibson.) Is it not laid down that the scale of the two head ladies is £200 to £250; that is the minimum and the maximum of the two principal appointments?—Yes.

3120, (Mr. Leathe (3) Miss A. E. Body only receives £195!--Yes, and she has been working at this for two or three years,

3121. (Chairman.) That is very perplexing. Do you say she gets £195 now?—Yes.

3122. And you get £250)?--I was going to say that I came in with Miss Woodd; she and I were the pioneers of the office for some years, and she got £300, Naturally, when she left, one would think you would goon to that amonut, carrying on the prestige of the office. but there is really nothing definite now.

3123. Mr. Gibson.) When was your step-sister ap: point -1 head of the Correspondene Brauch?--I should say three years ago, but I would not be quite sure,

3121. She is still £5 below the minimum scale attached to that office?—Yes,

3125. (Sir Francis Moratt.). Do you ladies receive a share of the income-tax percentage ?--Yes,

3126. That is in excess of this?—It is in excess of that.

3127, (Clairman.) Has this lady, your step-sister, ever asked any question as to why it appears in this written document that the salary is from £200 to £250, with a minimum of £200," while she receives £195 As far as I understand that has only been settled just lately.

312, (Sir Francis Mowall,) What do you call just lately 7- A couple of months ago I will say,

3129, (Mr. Gibson.) And practically she was deputy head before 2-No, she was lead.

3130. She is now the head. Has she never been the deputy heal?-Up to July, 1905, the Corre- spondence Department was under the control of men (head and deputy head), Miss A. E. Body being head of the ladies. Since that time the department has been entirely worked by ladies under the control of Miss A. E. Bubly and Miss Lloyd as head and deputy head respectively.

3131. From the statement we have had handed in there appears to be a deputy head of your branch ami a deputy head of the correspondence at a scale of £200 to £250, and I was suggesting that if she was deputy head she was continuing her old scale of pay, and had not yet been placed on the new scale of pay?-She has been the head for some years.

3132. (Chutsman.) Three years! Longer than that really, only it has been made a much more important post. Up to three years ago she was only receiving £150, and then it became more important, because they manage the Correspondence Office now on their own account, and as you say, although she is only getting £95, while it is down in black and white That she should get £200, she has been working up an small increments from £150,

813. What increments were they -Increments of Els per annum.

3131. (Mr. Gibson.) What has your own increment been?—I have had my, present post two or three years, and when I was first raised from £200 I had £20 as an merement: and then "had two £15's, and that, of course, makes up to £250,

3135. (Mr. Leathes.) Now you have reached your maximum? I suppose so; I hoped it would be more. but still I know it is not to be a personal matter, only you wish to know about the office as a whole.

3136, (Chairman.) Is there a general feeling amongst the staff of ladies that they would like to know more certainly what the salaries of the different offices are and what the annual increments are?--Yes, I think so.

3137. They would prefer to have the matter fixed and known beforehand ?—Yes. I think it would be more satisfactory.

3138. Provided always that the work was satisfac- tory?—Yes.

3139. (Mr. Gibson.) Definite scales with regular in- crements is what you desire?—Y

3140, (Nir Francis Mowatt.) You have explained. I think, that your step-sister was receiving 1195, and is recviving it still, but about two or three months ago there came out this official announcement that the minimum salary of the office was to be £200?--I hardly think it was official; it was told me, really,

3141. That does not affect the question I really want to get an auswer to, which is this: has her rate of pay been alteral since that?—No.

3142. Have the salaries of the other ladies affected by the announcement been altered 1--No. There would be me one else to be affected, you see. Miss Lloyd. who is the deputy head, only gets up to £20, so that it would not affect her.

3113. You think your step-sister was the only lady whose salary was affected by that announcement. official or otherwise, and no change has taken place in her rate of pay since ?—No.

3144. (Mr. Gibson.) How is it that Miss Lloyd was getting £14) if the maximum was £1507 Was she given a special increase over £150 in the same way as Miss A. Ê. Bodly was?--Is she getting £180 now"?

3145. Yes, I notice she is getting it now, and I gather that the maximum of the lady clerks was £150. Miss Lloyd and Miss A. E. Boddy appear to be getting rates of pay in excess of that?---Miss Lloyd is is deputy head, and they run up to £200,

3116. Have the scales of pay of the deputy heads. £150 to £200, been in force some time? We have not known what the deputy head was to go to

3147. Practically all you have known really is that the bulk of the lady clerks go to a maximum of £150; anything beyond that is more or less at haphazard, and nothing is laid down beyond that?-Nó, except tha: it said now that the deputy heads are to got

£200,

3149. Are these new orders about revision of scales of pay promulgated to the office in any way? Am they announced in odlice memoranda or Minutes ?—I was only told it.

3149. (Chairman.) You have not seen any docninent of this kind (rhibiting); it has not been sent round? No. The only thing I can say is that I just saw a memorandum-I do not know that 1 was even meant to me it which said “Salaries." and I think my name was underneath, “£200 to £250," but I was only told it. It has not been sent round as a Minute.

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE.

Miss M. E. Roy.

8150. That would be when this was being copied, very likely-Yes, but it did not look like that; it was just a rough memorandum that I saw,

3151. (Mr. Trathes.) Who pays the salaries of the staff of the office? Do you?—No, it is all sent from the Pay Office.

3152. From the men's Pay Office ?—Yes,

3153. (Chairman.) Does the same thing apply to pensions? Have you any scale of pensions laid down? -No. We suggested that some time ago,

3154. To whom did you suggest it ?—I mean we have talked about it among ourselves as to whether we goubl not have some settled senle of pension and whether Indies need to stop to the age of 60 before they get one, and I think there was quite an under- standing that they must stop to that age unless they thoroughly break down, when, of course, they would get their pension. I was told the other day by word of mouth that my thirty years would count, and that I could actually leave without breaking down-that- I would be able to get my pension--but that is not put down in black and white; it was only told to me.

3155, (Mr. Harris.) Wha told you that ?-Sir Ernest Blake told me that.

3156. (Chairman.) He told you haphazard, as it might be?—Yes.

3157. That you were entitled to a pension ?—Yes. 3158. That was the first you had heard of it ?—It was the first. I had heard of it, because I had always understood that we had to stop on.

3159. (Mr. Gihann.) He told you that you could now retire on a pension after 30 years' service?—Yes.

3160. On any particular scale 1-1-00th for each year? That I would get half-pay—yes,

3161. (Mr. Leathes.) About gratuities on marriage, is there any rule laid down ?---There has just been one instance lately: it has been brought into force only within the last three months, I think.

3162. (Sir Francis Mowalt.) You do not include the Contingency of marriage in the expression breaking down, do you ?—No,

3163, (Mr. Leathes.) About leave, what conditions are there?-We have 25 working days.

314. And a proportion of Saturdays?-And a pro- portion of Saturdays-the heads and the deputy heads get alternate Saturdays.

3165. And the others every third Saturday?--Yes.

139

-21 July 1:08.

3106. (Mr. Gibson.) What periods of sick leave with full pay are you allowed? Is there anything laid down? They have been very liberal over sick leave.

3167. You have nothing to find fault with there?- I hope I have not been finding fault with anybody, because I know we are well treated.

3168, (Mr. Leathes.) Would you get six months' sick leave with full pay, do you suppose?-Oh, yes, decidedly.

3169. Perhaps more?-Well, people have.

3170, (Mr. Gibson.) Has anybody been, so to speak,

put on reduced pay for periods of sick leave, or have they always had full pay whatever period they have required?-Always full pay; whether they would be so liberal now I do not know, but everybody has been fairly well of late years.

3171. There is nothing laid down?-No; they have been most liberal over it.

3172. (Chairman.) What happens when people get married-Nothing has ever happened except just lately within the last three months, when there was a lady married from the Correspondence Department.

3173. It often does happen. I suppose?-It has not very often happened, but those who have got married have, of course, not received anything in years gone by.

3174. (Mr. Leathes.) How long had this one lady served?About three years, I should think.

3175. As small a period as three years?—I think it was three years. I believe I am right in saying that. 3176. (Mr. Gibson.) Are there any limits of age fixed for appointments? Do ladies enter with any limitation of age?-None whatever.

3177. They might come in at thirty 7-I think they would prefer them not to be as much as that, but there is no definite limit.

3178. (Chairman.) On the whole, would you say that the staff is contented or not?-I think we ought all to say we are contented.

3179. Do you?—Yes, decidedly.

3190. But you would like these particular points made clear salaries, rates of increment, and pen- sions ?—Yes.

3181. If they were all laid down, that would make you really more contented?—Yes; I do not think we have anything to complain of, and we feel we are very well treated.

The witness withdrew,

Mr. HARRY MARTIs, called and examined.

3152, (Chairman.) You represent the unestablished elorks?—Yen.

3183. What you call class IV. ?—Yes.

3184. That is the class above the boys?—Yes. 3185. Could you tell us how many there are of them-Sixty-five.

31). How far do you represent them-how far have you been able to consult them? Are you unani- on in what you wish to say?—I have consultel nearly everybody I think.

3187. Do you think you may say that you are a representative?-Quite.

31. You have been good enough to send in a

p of particular points you wish to bring before s. Perhaps you would tell us first how you are ap *panted; you and your class? The Crown Agents

appoint us.

wer

3180. For instance, how

you yourself ap pointed?-I suppose I distinguished myself as a boy copyist, and I was offered a post,

e 21

3190. You came in as a boy copyist?--Yes, and I was appointed, after being in the office about eighteen months.

3191. How did you come in first as a boy copyist? -Through the Civil Service.

3192. What proportion of these 65 young men came in through the Civil Service, the same way as you did?-1 think the greater proportion; there cannot be any doubt about that.

3193. How did the remainder get there ?—They were brought in from the outside by the Crown Agents.

3194. By selection?—Yes.

3195. Are all the 85 people who have been pro- moted from boy copyists or were some brought in straight from outside?—Some were brought straight- in from outside.

3196. Could you tell us the proportion?-Quite a small proportion, I should think, were brought in.

3197, They werd

from mostly promoted

buy copyists?—Yes.

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