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CROWN AGENTS ENQUIRY COMMITTEE:

Mr. W. H. MERCER, C.M.G.

is often convenient to the Colonial Governments that they are in a position to do so; but the primary duty of the Crown Agents is to obtain and follow the in- structions of the Colonial Governments, and if free and frank relations between the Crown Agents and the Governments are to be promoted, it is desirable that this should be understood and recognised. This is, in fact, the general opinion of the Colonial Office, and the Colonial Regulations were altered in one important respect to give effect to it" In what respect is that? -The old regulations provided that whenever a de mand was made upon us it should be our duty to we whether money was available in the Colony; in other words, that it had been appropriates!. This made it necessary for one of us to come over here personally or to write officially to inquire whether that was the case. Obviously we did not know, and in many cases it led to great delay. If we referred officially perhaps wo did not get an answer immediately; it stopped the business, and there did not seen to be any practical point in it, especially as many indents do, ás à matter of fact, come to us when the money has not been appro priated. It led to vast delays, especially in the case of West Africa, and I suggested here myself that the regulation should be withdrawn, and it was done.

2090. The regulation is now withdrawn, so that you do not have to inquire whether the money is available or not-No; it is all on the principle which I have endeavoured to submit, that we should take our orders from the Colonial Governments and look to them Bolely. If they send me an indent my business is to carry it out as quickly as possible. I do not want to rome here for any authority if I can help it.

2001. (Mr. Gibson.) Did not Mr. Chamberlain lay down the rule as a result of the inquiry in 1901?-- Yes.

2002. (Chairman.) You go en to say that the Secre tary of State frequently consults the Crown Agents in matters of policy, such as railway enterprise, as to which they have accumulated information and experi ence; but in these cases the Crown Agents have no authority, and the decision rests with the Secretary of State, who may have considerations before him which do not come before the Crown Agents. Advice given on such occasions is personal and confidential, like that given by any Colonial Office official, and is not given on instructions from any Colonial Government, and is not paid for?--I see you look at me in a some. what questioning manner, sir; but that is the strict truth.

2093. (Sir Francis Mawatt.) You do not consider it is paid for by the general contributions from the several Colonies?--Oh, no, the general contributions vary mostly from £50 to £150, and they are undoubtedly paid for the work of our l'ay Division: that is to say. we pay the salaries of officers and the pensions för that.

2004. But not for the general expenses of your administration? Oh, no.

2095. How are they paid for? It has always lwen understood that the tributions are for the salaries and pensions work.

2000. How are the other expenses of your adminis tration paid for? In many cases we make no charge. We have, as you know, a fixed scale of charges, and we are really dependent mostly upon our financial work in the second instance comes the stores work, and then we have a few miscellaneous rates, but there still remains a good deal of business to which no rate Is attache for instance, we do really a vast roulie emigration work.

2007. These duties you perform for the Colonial Governments are within the duties of your office, and should you not say they were paid for by this salary which comes out of the contributions of the Colonies? I personally am paid; I have nothing to complain uf at all.

20. (Chairman.) To put it in another way, in this case, as you point uut, you are not acting in the usual constitutional way in which you wish that the Crown Agents should act, that is, you are not acting their agent at all, but you are urting as people wh happen to have the information available to the Secretary of State 7-Yes.

2099. But/when you come over on their business, as you must do, you do not charge them for that visit? --No.

210. When you come over on this visit you do not charge. but in both cases your time is pund for by the Colonies, so are we not right in saying that when you act in this capacity you are using tho Colonial Government's funds for parpies outside what you think should be the scope of your office?— Perhaps I should explain that I am putting this a complaint and not with not in any way as

it shouldl be paid for, any suggestion that but simply to point out that it is really a private matter between the Secretary of State and ourselves. Of course, our own personal salaries are not affected by these considerations at all; the only question is what sevins to go into our ordinary revening, in other words, what charges we make upon the Colonies. All I say about it is dat we do certain work in a friendly way for the convenience of the Secretary of State, and it is not a matter which comes within ordinary work and is not paid for as such.

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2101. We are inch obliged to you; this points out an anomaly - It is, rather.

2102. It is an anomalous position of the Crown Agents That is quite right, if 1 may say so.

for

2103. The Committee are obliged to you bringing it out; I think it is more anomalous even than you thought, because I think, strictly speaking, you can hardly say it is not paid for? -I might have said a good deal more about it, because it is the kind of thing that has frequently got us into trouble.

2104. Tell us about the British Honduras Railway. -It really happened before my time, and I am not acquainted with the exact details; 1 am sure Mr. Harris would know them a great deal better than 1 do. but at one time there was a vigorous campaign directed against the Crown Agents for preventing this railway from being built. Undoubtedly we had dis cussions on the matter; 1, myself, do not exactly re- member what was said, but I am quite ekar about this, that eventually the Secretary of State himself knocked that project on the head."

2105. (Sir Francis Moralt.) But then the friendly advice you gave to the Colonial Office was against what the Colony sought for its own interest?—Not at all; I have no reason to believe that for a moment; quite on the contrary I remember the Governor and the Colonial Secretary thought the project was objec tionable.

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2106, (Chairman.) The Press thought it sirable-Exactly. We think the Press on these vera- sons think it desirable because they get the informa tion from the contractor who wants the job; he is the source of information on nearly all thes, occasions, 1 do not blame the contractor; it is a very natural position for hum to take up,

2107. What have you got to say on this interesting anomaly? because anquialons it is. It may be the case that it was not only the contractors, but that the people of the Colony thought things desirable and you in your discretion, thought them undesirable. You give that advice to the Secretary of State. because it is asked: you cannot very well avond 1. and yet you go over as the paid servant, as you like to regard yourself, of the Colony and give advice contrary to the wishes of the people". I mean in some You have drawn our attention to this supponeil ense,

anomaly. Do you think there is any way out of it?-1 do not think there is any way out of it. It involves us in a great deal of trouble. We are fre quently «xposed to newspaper attacks and I have ne hesitation in saying that the great majority of the attacks made upon us are in connection with this class of work. At the same time I do not think that Is a real consuleration. We do not mind that if the If it is convenient for the Secretary of State does not. Secretary of State, if he wants any further informa- 2013, to Foul for its or write to us, I say by all means let him do so. In all classes of business you have occasionally to go to some outside authority."

210. On these occasions does the Secretary of State write to you or send to you as Crown Agents, or as

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE.

Mr. W. II. MERCER, C.M.G.

individuals who happen to have special knowledge ?-- The letter is addressed to the Crown Agents in the usual way; then it goes to the Crown Agent who, as a matter of fact, has dealt with the particular ense or to whom it is particularly appropriate.

cession cases to us.

2100. In point of fact how often does this kind of thing arise --Not often now; it is enormously dimi- mished by a step which has been taken quite red cently and that is the institution of the Concessions Committer in this office. Until quite recently it was the practice of the Colonial (lice to refer these con One reason was that we had ulti- mately to lick them into legal shape, and we have entually to sign them. The Secretary of State can not sign these concessions; he is not the agent and Constitutionally he cannot do it. We have eventually to sign them, and this led to our being frequently cousalted, but not always. Now as you know, sir, it has leen arranged that there should be a representa- tive conimittee of this office to consider all these cases from the very colamencement, One of us is usually invited to be present, but obviously under that arrangement our responsibility and our share in the matter is an extremely small one compared with what

!! WAN.

2110. (Sir Albert Spicor.) May I ask you this ques tion: Have you during your period in the office had any case of this description, that some new enterprise has been desired by the Governor, by the Colonial Government, and that it has been backed by the people; you have been consulted by the Colonial Secretary, and in your best judgment you have advised against it? I cannot at the moment recollect such a case; in fact, if you bring in the people as well as the Colonial officials I am quite sure there has been no

such raso.

11. I am speaking of the people as far as they can indicate their wishes.

Take tho

(Chairman.) We will say as far as their views are expressed in the Legislative Assembly? I think I am fairly clear in my own mind that no such case has occurred. It really does not come to that in practice. char opinions, if they are expressed at all, are ex- pressed at a very early stage of the case. case of a railway enterprise; the thing does not comO before the legislative Council immediately, or even before the Executive Council. The Governor himself considers the matter; of course, there are some canSES which have led him to do so, and the first step he takes in to write to the Secretary of State and tell him generally the scheme, and ask for the Secretary of State's views. It is at that time that the Secretary of State would, if he wrote at all, write to us.

2112. Does he generally consult you on those ucca. sions in your experience--Up till quite recently, be fre the institution of the Concessions Committee, he has done so.

On 2113. Always?—No, not always by any means. two very large occasions which I can mention the Ashanti Goldfields Corporation and the Ceylon Peari The Ashanti Fisheries Co., he did not consult us. Goldfields Corporation and the Ceylon Pearl Fisheries Co issued shares which went up to 20 times their nominal value afterwards, and I am glad to say we had nothing to do with these cases.

2114. (Sir Albert Spicer.) During your period of office has any occasion arisen where a Colonial Governor has consulfest the Colonial Secretary about some enterprise and you, the Crown Agents, have advised against it? I should not think we have ever advised absolutely against a scheme. There have been various railway projects on the West Coast of Africa, for instance, with regard to which we have certainly never advised against them. but we may have suggested nuditica-

s in them. Certainly that would be long before the matter had got to the stage of any public opinion. Frankly speaking, sir, 1 know no ground whatever myself for that kind of feeling which you indicate an which I know exists.

2115. (Chairman.) This strikes at the root of the theory which you think the Crown Agents should always bear in mind, that they are not the masters but the servants of each Colony, does it not?—No, sir, I cannot accept that.

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2116. Does it strike at the root of it? No, I do not think it does if it is properly done. I think the pro- per way of looking at it is that when we come here to confer with the Secretary of State and endeavour to advise him, we do so as far as we possibly can in the interests of the Colonies. Certainly, if the Secretary of State or any ollicer of the Colonial Ollice sent for me to discuss the project without being forced by the Colonial Government I should always endeavour to take the most favourable point of view of it. I should regard myself as practically being briefed to uphold it as far as I conscientiously could, and I am constantly doing so

2117. (Sir Ralph Mour.) There is also the inverse case, where the Colony may issue certain orders to you to be carried out, and in your discretion you think you can make an improvement upon them?—Yes.

2118. You suggest your improvement to the Serre- tary of State in the interests of the Colony – Cer- tainly if time permitted I should make the sugges tion to the Colonial Government. That I need hardly say is not in a spirit of antagonism to the Colony, but simply because I desire to do the best I can for it.

2119. Purely in their interest?—Yes.

2120. (Mr. lathes) You serve many Colonies; might it not be that you might think it necessary to oppose a railway in British Honduras in the interest of the other Colonies 7-Well, I think we should take the case upon its merits.

2121. You would have to consider the Colonial system as I whole, and not the interests of British Honduras only - I think we should take the case of British Honduras by itself.

2122. (Chairman.) Sir Francis Mowatt asks me to put to you this question: Supposing you receive an intimation from a Colonial Government, that they du not wish you to advise the Secretary of State against a scheme, and you have received a letter from the Secretary of State asking you to come over and advise him, what would you deem it your duty to do?—It 18 rather a question of casuistry, and 1 am not quite clear what I should do; but I think I should write back to the Colonial Government and put the point to them.

2123. (Sir Francis Moratt.) The point of the ques- tion was that we should determine, and that you should determine in your own mind, whether you are the servant of the Colonial Office or the servant of the Crown Colonies. You say you are the servant of the Crown Colonies ?--Yes.

3124. And I was anxious to bring that to this rather strict test. Assuming that the Crown Colony wished you to do one thing and that the Colonial Office wished you to do another thing, to whom is your immediate duty - It is a very difficult question, but at the same fiz 1 submit, sir, that it is only, an academic one. Undoubtedly, from the constitutional point of view my primary duty is to the Colony, but if such a case as that occurred, I have no doubt I should come over here personally and talk the matter over. I think I could settle it in some way or another, at any rate it never has occurred.

2125. And without disobeying the instructions of the Colony you would probably allow your opinion to leak out JIL the conversation!-All the executive officers of the Colonial Government, including tho Crown Agent, are absolutely in the hands of the Sec- retary of State.

a limited 2128, (Chairman.) Everybody moves in orbit that we fully recognise - that is all understood; everybody moves in a limited orbit with the ultimate control of the Secretary of State upon him?-What I say is this; we are, it is true, the servants of the Colonial Governments, but both the Colonial Govern- ments and ourselves are under the authority of the Secretary of State, he is the ultimate authority un- doubtedly, and it would be my business in the cass of a conflict of opinion to try to get the Colonial Secretary to acept the view of the Colonial Govern- ment if 1 conscientiously urge th If I could not manage it could not be helped.

2127. You go as far as that; you,regard yourself as

a lawyer with a brief?-Almost.