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Fifteenth Day. 14 May 1997.

NEWFOUNDLAND FISHERY.

188

As I have said, I am quite Sir ROBERT BOND: No, certainly not. prepared to go to arbitration upon the whole case.

Mr. DEAKIN: But must not we wait until the Canadian Government has considered whether it is favourable to arbitration at all before you put in issue the Treaty of 1818 operating on both countries?

CHAIRMAN: That is why I suggest you might leave the discussion as

it stands.

Sir ROBERT BOND: Do you mean that it shall be brought up again for the Conference to determine.

Sir WILFRID LAURIER: If Sir Robert Bond intimates to Sir Edward Grey that he thinks, in reference to the present_condition of things, he would prefer arbitration to any other course, then I imagine the course of His Majesty's Government would be at once to communicate with Canada, whether we are prepared to join in that. We have always felt that we have so strong a case that we never contemplated possible arbitration, and we realise if we were now to consent to arbitration the people of Canada would not understand what it means. But if we received such communication we would have to look into it, and in Canada we have no other desire in this matter, having no grievance now with the United States, than to help Sir Robert Bond; and I am sure he can rely upon our support as far as we can help him.

Beason ?

Sir ROBERT BOND: The question is as to the position which will appertain in the meantime. What will be the position during the next Are the laws of the Colony to remain in abeyance? If so, you are going to have complete demoralisation along the whole of that coast line. I know what obtained there last year, and what is likely to obtain again. You are going to have a total disregard for all constitutional authority. Pending the question of arbitration, do you not think that His Majesty's Government should put forward to the Americans, the position that the laws of the Colony must be respected, both the Customs and Revenue laws and fishery regulations as well? To have the Americans defying all law and order is certain to lead to a complete demoralisation of His Majesty's subjects along 2,000 miles of coast line.

CHAIRMAN: All that surely is a matter which would be considered by His Majesty's Government on this representation that you were willing to consider arbitration, but we cannot settle it here in this Conference, and I am anxious to dispose of our business of the Conference.

Sir ROBERT BOND: But what condition of things would appertain in the meantime?

CHAIRMAN: I cannot answer that.

Sir EDWARD GREY: We shall have to try and arrange a modus vivendi for the next fishing season. We did that for the last fishing season.

189

Sir ROBERT BOND: But tho modus vivendi of the last fishing season gave the Americans more than they asked for, and completely overrode our Acts, and led, as I said before, to the demoralisation of His Majesty's subjects.

{

Sir EDWARD GREY: It did not give them more than they asked for.

Sir ROBERT BOND: I do not think they asked for shipping crews; in fact the Secretary of State at Washington said in his despatch to Mr. Gardner, which I have quoted, that they were not entitled to it. The modus vivendi gave them permission to ship crews beyond the three mile limit.

Sir EDWARD GREY: That was an essential condition of the modus vivendi. They gave up their Sunday fishing and did not use their purse seines.

Sir ROBERT BOND: They had no right to Sunday fishing; and it is a law rigidly enforced against them in Canada.

Sir EDWARD GREY: From our point of view they gave up nothing. I am talking about what they had given up from their own point of view. You have the two points of view to consider in this matter.

Sir WILFRID LAURIER: Did they use purse seines last season? Sir ROBERT BOND: They tried and found they could not use them. Sir WILFRID LAURIER: Not because they would not, but because they could not?

Sir ROBERT BOND: Because they could not. shoal.

The water was too

CHAIRMAN: We must close this point somehow.

Sir ROBERT BOND: Certainly. I should very much like my tion to be put, even supposing it is not carried.

resolu-

Mr. DEAKIN: Would you put it before you have the answer of Canada ?

Sir ROBERT BOND: Yes, otherwise I shall have no opportunity of putting it; there will be nothing on record.

Mr. DEAKIN: There will be a record that you moved this, that when the Canadian Government's position was stated, it was realised that there could not be arbitration for Newfoundland without arbitration for Canada. Canada is entitled to be consulted, having no present grievance of her own, before your appeal to arbitration is made. Until that answer is given, is it desirable to press your right?

Sir ROBERT BOND: I should be perfectly satisfied with that position if my remarks before the Conference form part of the proceedings together with the resolution.

I 49270.

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Fifteenth Day.

14 May 1907.

NEWFOUNDLAND FISHERIES.