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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

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18 PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

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Fifteenth Day. 14 May 1907.

MAIL SERVICE TO AUSTRALIA AND NEW ZEALAND ria

CANADA.

(Sir

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resolution comes in a concrete form to-day, but it has not come as a new idea or subject at all.

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: Not the general idea, but the actual proposal. Sir Joseph Ward says you have to commit yourself to an 18-knot service here, and a 23-knot service there.

Sir JOSEPH WARD: What I say is this: from the New Zealand stand- Wilfrid Laurier.) point, to-day, we are in this position, that the only mail route which we have for which we give a subsidy to the American Government is stopped. We want to give the benefit of our subsidy to a service through Canada." I do not think it is possible for a service such as we want to be put into effect without the assistance of the British Government. That is the point of view I take It is believed that I up. You are probably right from your point of view. am suggesting too fast a speed for these steamers. We launched a steamer the other day to do a portion of our work in New Zealand, to steam 20 knots, which does not get a penny of subsidy.

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: Where is it running to?

Sir JOSEPH WARD: Between the two islands.

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: No doubt there is a big trade.

Sir JOSEPH WARD: Yes, it is, though short compared to ocean voyages. I can give you the ocean passage from Australia right across to Vancouver, to which that argument will not apply. We have a steamer belonging to that service that does the journey across at 19 knots, the "Maheno."

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: Does she run regularly?

Sir JOSEPH WARD: All the summer months, and in winter between Australia and New Zealand. She runs all the time, frequently at 18 knots, and she has averaged over 18 between Australia and New Zealand more than That steamer, without any difficulty, could, if required, average over

once. 17 knots.

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: Here is a scheme which will involve hundreds of thousands of pounds, one way and another. There is a difference between one estimate and another of, perhaps, two or three hundred thousand pounds a year. The only memorandum that has been filed in support of it is this memorandum circulated this morning, of which I think I saw a copy yesterday in draft. As far as I can see, even in this memorandum, you have no estimate of the cost, and we are pledging ourselves to the very route and the very method without even having an estimate of what the scheme may cost. I do not think it is a business-like proposition to ask us to commit ourselves to all the details at the present moment without concerted examination.

Sir JOSEPH WARD: We do not propose to commit ourselves to details either. What we want as a matter of policy is to try to bring our countries closer to the Mother Country.

CHAIRMAN: That is what done in this resolution.

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Sir ROBERT BOND: I would like to ask Sir Wilfrid Laurier if he is wedded to any particular scheme or any particular proposal. I ask that question because the Colony that I represent has already entered into a contract with reputable people in this City for the purpose of carrying out a short line scheme to connect Great Britain with the American Continent by the shortest and fastest route. We have gone so far as to offer a considerable subsidy in cash as well as in lands and minerals, and I should not like to have that proposal excluded from the consideration of His Majesty's Government by any resolution to be proposed here. I understand that the contractors have already approached His Majesty's Government in reference to that matter. If they have not done so, I know they intend doing so, and I now ask that that proposal may receive due consideration, and that the Resolution be so worded as to admit of such.

Sir WILFRID LAURIER: I have not defined it; it may be this or that. We want a good service between England and Canada. As I know, there is a project via Newfoundland, but I do not object to that being considered.

CHAIRMAN: I hope the Conference understands that the resolution read by Mr. Lloyd George does not take up the expert view which was objected to. It is an inquiry simply which is desired by concerted action between all the Governments.

Sir WILLIAM LYNE: Really to find out how much money would be required.

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: How much it would cost and how much each Colony would contribute.

C

CHAIRMAN: I had better read the two resolutions.

The two

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: I think it is a great pity we should not arrive at some unanimous decision to enable us to go on with the matter. conflicting resolutions will leave the thing quite in the air.

CHAIRMAN: Sir Wilfrid Laurier's resolution, as he proposed it, is:

"That in the opinion of this Conference the interests of the Empire demand that in so far as practicable its different portions should be connected by the best possible means of mail communication, travel, and trans- portation."

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Mr. DEAKIN: Why not put that part now?

CHAIRMAN: I will read the whole thing.

Sir WILFRID LAURIER: I understand the first is accepted.

CHAIRMAN: "That to this end steps should be immediately taken to "establish a fast service from Great Britain to Canada and through Canada to Australia and New Zealand and also to China and Japan; that such service upon the Atlantic Ocean should be carried on by means of steamships equal in speed and character to the best now in existence, and upon the Pacific Ocean by steamships of a speed as nearly equal to the Atlantic service as circumstances will permit; that for the purpose of

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Fifteenth Day.

14 May 1907.

MAIL SERVICE TO AUSTRALIA AND NEW

ZEALAND Tia CANADA.