CO885-(16-18) — Page 788

PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

Reference :-

C.O.885

18 PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

| ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE

BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH~NOT TO

Fifteenth Day. 14 May 1907.

MAIL SERVICE TO AUSTRALIA AND NEW

ZEALAND riá

CANADA.

(Mr.

160

Zealand and Australia nearer to the Mother Country, there can be no doubt at all, and we shall, as far as the Government are concerned, adopt the first three lines of Sir Wilfrid Laurier's resolution by way of establishing our agreement with the general proposition. But it is a matter that has to be gone into very carefully, and here I agree with Mr. Deakin, that it is a matter which ought to be gone into very carefully by experts. It is a question as to the Even such best route. It is a question as to what it would cost. a very desirable object as that which has been foreshadowed by Sir Wilfrid Lloyd George.) Laurier, might cost a sum which would be absolutely prohibitive. I have been told, for instance, that a very fast service from Vancouver to New Zealand would cost such a large sum of money, that it would be quite beyond anything that you could possibly expect either the New Zealand Govern- ment, the Canadian Government or the Imperial Government to face. That is a matter that should be examined, I think, by experts. What we suggest is that we should at once proceed to examine the proposal and any other proposals that may be put forward, because there is an alternative I understand, which will be suggested by Australia with regard to the Suez Canal route. I think they all ought to be considered, and considered practically by the same body.

Sir JOSEPH WARD: What is the alternative?

Mr. DEAKIN: It is not an alternative. We need both the eastern and western routes, so that there is no alternative from an Australian point of view.

Sir WILFRID LAURIER: I never understood it to be an alternative but a matter to be considered by itself.

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: These are the very few alterations we propose to suggest in Sir Wilfrid Laurier's resolution. We propose to leave in all about the Canadian service and put that as the foremost object, as it is the first scheme placed before the Conference; and we propose also to recommend that we should inquire into other schemes which may be later tabled by other Governments.

Mr. DEAKIN: The proposal submitted by New Zealand is for a fortnightly service. We require a weekly service. One service could come this way one week and the second by the other route on the alternate week.

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: We cannot examine it apart from the question It is not only of the carriage of goods, too. We must take that into account. a matter of a fast mail service, but also a question of the cheaper transport of I consider that to be a very important goods and materials from the Colonies. item, so far as we are concerned,

Then we cannot altogether overlook the fact that the Panama Canal will make a very material alteration in the whole problem of communication with Australia and New Zealand. The Canal will probably be open within the next 10 years. When you are framing a scheme of this kind you cannot overlook the effect which the Panama Canal must necessarily have on the whole problem. It will probably revolutionise the whole question of communication with the southern seas, as the Suez Canal revolutionised the whole problem of communication with the East. That has to be considered.

"

What we suggest is something to this effect. We adopt the first three lines of Sir Wilfrid Laurier's resolution, and put in the word "practicable instead of "possible," but that alteration is merely verbal, suggested because

151

to

Fifteenth Day.

14 May 1907.

MAIL SERVICE

TO AUSTRALIA AND Nzw ZEALAND viâ CANADA.

(Mr.

the word "possible occurs later on. This part of the Resolution would therefore read: "That in the opinion of this Conference the interests "of the Empire demand that in so far as practicable its different portions "should be connected by the best possible means of mail conumunication, "travel, and transportation." To that we agree.

We then propose continue as follows: "That to this end the various Governments concerned "should initiate concerted inquiry into the proposal submitted to the "Conference for establishing a fast service from Creat Britain to Canada,

and through Canada to Australia and New Zealand, and the financial Lloyd George.) support which would be necessary for the purpose of maintaining such a service, and also into any other proposals for similar purposes which That is what may be submitted by any of the Governments concerned.'

[K

"

I propose to submit to the Conference, and that will enable us to go into the whole question of time that will be consumed, and the question not merely of the money to be required, but also of the contributions which may be expected from each of the respective contracting States. All these practical questions could be thoroughly sifted and scrutinised, and I do not see why any time should be lost, and why experts should not be appointed before the Premiers leave London now, and why they should not proceed at once to examine into the matter and take evidence. That is the proposal which the Imperial Government put forward.

Sir WILFRID LAURIER: Lord Elgin and gentlemen, I am quite pleased with the general acceptance which this proposal has received, and still more pleased that so far as New Zealand is concerned the only criticism offered by Sir Joseph Ward is that the proposal is too limited in its scope. The proposal which I submitted is in these words, "that such service upon "the Atlantic Ocean should be carried out by means of steamers equal in speed and character to the best now in existence." We cannot do anything more with regard to improving our communication with Canada than to have a service equal to the best that is now in existence between New York and England. So far, I think, it requires no expert knowledge or evidence at all.

you are not prepared to do that, then it is blocking the whole system.

<<

If

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: Between England and Halifax-that is a different matter, I agree.

Sir WILFRID LAURIER: With regard to the Pacific, I limited my I have looked into the matter the last few proposal to an 18-knot service. days, and I find in conversation with some people interested in this service that at this moment it would be very difficult to have more than 18 knots. I agree with Sir Joseph Ward if we could have something better it would be well to do so, and if it can be done by spending money, I may say on behalf of the Government of Canada, that we are prepared to go as far as any Governments here interested in overcoming the difficulties. If agreeable "That such to Sir Joseph Ward, I will amend my proposition in this way.

4

"service upon the Atlantic Ocean should be carried on by means of steamships equal in speed and character to the best now in existence, and upon the "Pacific ocean by steamships of a speed and character as nearly equal to the "Atlantic ships as circumstances would permit." Would you accept that, Sir Joseph ?

Sir JOSEPH WARD: Quite so.

Sir WILFRID LAURIER: I would limit it in this way, but if Mr. Lloyd George would permit me to say so, I do not think it is a question of experts "all red route," in this matter, but a question of policy. We want to have an