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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

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C.O.885

18 PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH—NOT TO

Fourteenth Day,

9 May 1907.

IMPERIAL

SURTAX ON FOREIGN

IMPORTS.

UNIVERSAL

PENNY POSTAGE.

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CHAIRMAN: For the Minutes of to-day we record that Mr. Deakin submitted this resolution, and Mr. Lloyd George submitted his.

Mr. DEAKIN : Please understand that if this resolution of mine were rejected by every individual member of the Conference, I should deplore our divergencies, but it would not in any way depress me. I should take the benefit of all the criticism, not regretting that I had brought the matter forward. My faith is that it is better to make a mistake attempting to frame a practical proposal than to do nothing at all. If this was a mistake, and 1 am satisfied it was not, I have at least succeeded in bringing the question right home. We are not here to score verbal victories by carrying resolutions, or to feel defeated if we do not carry them, but we are here to make some advance by the frank discussion of these Imperial possibilities. I am obliged to the Minister for getting beyond the accidents of my proposal to its essence at the close.

UNIVERSAL PENNY POSTAGE.

CHAIRMAN: Mr. Buxton also has business which calls him away, and as this Post Oflice subject will not take very long, I think we might take the subject of universal penny postage before we take Imperial cable communication.

Sir JOSEPH WARD: Lord Elgin and gentlemen, In the motion as it stands upon the Agenda, I propose, after consultation with the Postmaster- General, to make a variation which he has agreed to accept, and it will fully meet what I want to place before the Conference to have a resolution upon, That and I think it will bring about unanimity. I propose to substitute this:

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in view of the social and political advantages, and the material commercial advantages to accrue from a system of international penny postage, this Conference recommends to His Majesty's Government the advisability, if and when a suitable opportunity occurs, of approaching the Governments "of other States, members of the Universal Postal Uniou, in order to obtain further reductions of postage rates, with a view to a more general and, if possible, a universal adoption of the penny rate,' What animates me, in. asking this Conference to give effect to a proposition of this kind, is a desire to see penny postage universally established as soon as possible, and to get over the incongruity of being able to send a letter from England to New Zealand, or from New Zealand to England for a penny, and having to pay 24d. to send that letter some 20 miles across the English Channel. Anything assisting to ripen public judgment on an important matter of this character, world-wide in its operation, in that respect is a good thing. As the Post- master-General has agreed to it in this altered form, I hope it may commend itself to the Conference. I move the resolution.

Mr. BUXTON: Lord Elgin and gentlemen, I have, on behalf of the Government, to accept the resolution, in the words Sir Joseph Ward has been good enough to adopt. Only I feel hound to say in regard to it that this resolution must be taken as an indication of policy, and that it leaves the fullest possible freedom to the British Government to judge as to the time and the opportunity and especially as to the question of the funds at their disposal, with regard to how far, and at what moment, and to what extent they can carry out the policy of further Postal reforms with reference to foreign countries or the Colonies, and in the matter of the adoption of universal penny postage. I am afraid I can give no promise of any likelihood that we shall be able to consider the matter at a very early date, because the Post Office revenue from which this would have to come, is not in a very

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clastic condition at the present moment, and the various claims upon our finances are considerable just now. I am afraid it must be understood in our accepting this resolution that we do it as an indication of policy more than any promise to carry it out at any carly date. The whole matter is really one of finance. We should desire to do this at any moment we may have the funds; but I should like to point out to Sir Joseph Ward and the Conference that the adoption of this proposal would mean a very considerable charge on Imperial funds. We have made certain postal improvements, as Sir Joseph knows, under the Postal Union--changes which come into force on 1st October next and which will cost us about 190,000l. a year. The adoption of universal penny postage would mean an addition to that of about 450,000., so that this resolution in its entirety would involve a charge of something like 650,000l. a year, which is, of course, a very serious sum. I am afraid we could not look with any hope, within, at all events, a number of years, of making up that loss by increased facilities leading to increased commerce, because in reducing it to a penny post, the margin of profit is almost infinitesimal on each item. I am glad to think that at the Conference of the Postal Union, at which Sir Joseph Ward was a representative, a very considerable step was made in advance in regard to foreigu postage, at the instigation of the British delegates, supported by the Colonial delegates, under which, after the 1st October next, the charge for foreign postage will remain, unfortunately, still at 2d, but that will frank a letter not of half an ounce as previously, but of a full ounce, and the second charge for two ounces will be only 4d. So that the upshot of the matter will be this, that under the new regulations which have cost this country about 200,0007. a year, in future a letter weighing an ounce, which before was 5d., will go for 24d.; a two-ounce letter, which before would have cost 10d. will now go for id. I think the Conference will admit that is a considerable step in advance in improving postal regulations with foreign countries. I do not know whether Sir Joseph has quite enough taken this point into account. As he will know as a delegate at that Postal Union the other great countries interested were by no means anxious to adopt penny postage; indeed, it was with great difficulty they were induced to adopt these changes which I have mentioned. Therefore, I am afraid even if we were ourselves prepared, and had the funds at disposal at the present moment, to suggest a penny postage to the other countries it would not at present be received with much favour. But I will say it is a matter with which the Chancellor of the Exchequer, as well as myself, have expressed sympathy, which, if and when the funds permit we shall certainly desire to adopt, taking into account this fact that in regard to all postal reforms they unfortunately cost money, and we have to look round when Post Office funds are available to see what, on the whole is the best investment for that service. This would, therefore, have to take its opportunity with other matters in competition, many of which are pressed upon us from time to time. I entirely agreo with Sir Joseph Ward that it is a matter of great importanco and one which I, for one, would like to see adopted at some early date.

There is just one point in connection with it which I might mention with regard to Imperial Penny Post, and that is that that also is benefited by the Postal Union Convention, to which I have referred. Up to now, under the Imperial Penny Postage, a letter of half-an-ounce went for a penny, but after the 1st October next a letter of a whole ounce will go for a penny so practically what used to cost 2d, under the Imperial Penny Postage will only in future cost a penny.

1 venture to suggest to Mr. Deakin when we are talking of inter- communication between various parts of the Empire, and subsidies, and so on, whether the time has not come that Australia also should fall completely into accord with the rest of the Empire in regard to this matter.

Fourteenth Day. 9 May 1907.

UNIVERSAL

PENNY POSTAGE. (Mr. Buxton.)

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