PEPER
PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE
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Reference :-
6
C.O.885
18 PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON
ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC-
COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO
Thirteenth Day.
8 May 1907.
"
UNIFORMITY OF COMPANY LAW.
"
RECIPROCITY AS TO BARRISTERS AND SURVEYORS,
60
UNIFORMITY OF COMPANY LAW.
Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: Yes, all this is work for the secretariat. I also move the resolution "That it is desirable so far as circumstances permit, to secure greater uniformity in Company Laws of the Empire and that the memorandum and analysis prepared on this subject by the Imperial "Government be commended to the consideration of the various Governments
represented at this Conference." That has been circulated I think.
Sir WILFRID LAURIER: That might be expected.
CHAIRMAN: Agreed?
Mr. DEAKIN: Agreed.
Dr. SMARTT: Can you not meet us in copyright?
Mr. DEAKIN: I do not see anything objectionable in recommending the copyright proposed, but Sir Wilfrid is not prepared to deal with it.
Sir WILFRID LAURIER: Both Sir William Lyne and I have some objection to it.
RECIPROCITY AS TO BARRISTERS AND SURVEYORS. CHAIRMAN: There are two small things from New Zealand on the agenda about reciprocity.
Sir JOSEPH WARD: I want to deal with this question of reciprocity as to barristers and surveyors. I will state the position briefly, Lord Elgin. I want to ask the Conference seriously to consider the fairness of giving effect to what I propose and I will give my reasons for it briefly. Full provision for reciprocity with the United Kingdom exists under the Imperial Act, but it is practically inoperative in the case of New Zealand owing to objections raised by the English Law Society on the ground that in New Zealand the two branches of the profession, barristers and solicitors, are combined and owing to this objection the Order in Council necessary to bring the Act into operation has not been issued. I submit that this objection has no substance. It is not suggested, nor does the Act provide, that in the case of a New Zealand barrister who is admitted in the United Kingdom under the Act he shall be entitled to practise here as a solicitor. I would like to point out that if the Act were brought into operation the balance of advantage would be with the United Kingdom. The number of New Zealand practi- tioners who would seek admission in England would be very few, and the number who would actually practise in England would be infinitesimal. On the other hand the number of English barristers who would avail themselves of the Act for the purpose of admission in New Zealand where they would have the right to practise both as barristers and solicitors would presumably be great.
It is well known that although the prizes at the English Bar are splendid for those who can win them, the number who succeed is very small compared with the very large number who are barristers only in name. The Colonies would afford an excellent field for these gentlemen, and in such cases the direct advantage would be to them although I freely admit that the Colonies would inevitably gain by obtaining people who would not only he a very estimable addition to the population, but would strengthen and raise the status of the profession in the Colony and keep it in closer touch with the English Bar.
Since I have been in England I have noticed that a further objection has been raised, namely, that in New Zealand women are eligible for
61
Thirteenth Day.
8 May 1907.
TO BARRINTERS AND SURVEYORS,
(Sir
admission to the bar. I admit the force of that in the matter of reciprocity, that if you want reciprocity you should have it in the same sexes, and where the desirability exists in England of women not being admitted to the Bar, and it does not exist in New Zealand, you could not have reciprocity in that RECIPROCITY AS respect. I think it is unreasonable under the reciprocity provisions of the Act that women should be allowed to practice when they are not eligible. Otherwise I should like to say, however, that the difficulty can be effectively Joseph Ward.) removed if the Order in Council provides that it shall apply only to persons who would otherwise be eligible for admission. That would exclude women from the benefits of the Act in the United Kingdom and elsewhere where they are not eligible.
I have dealt only with the United Kingdom and New Zealand, but the same observations would, of course, apply to other portions of the dependencies in cases where the same objections have been urged. Now, I want to say on this matter that I do personally feel that it is greatly to be regretted that a matter of sentiment which can be provided for in the terms of the Order in Council, should prejudice or stand in the way of what would be regarded by the profession, certainly in New Zealand, and I presume elsewhere, too, the inestimable advantage for them to have the right of reciprocity with their pro- fessional brethren in England. To my mind it appears to be purely sentimental, this objection to the admission of women to the Bar in New Zealand where comparatively few women, only two or three at the most, have passed, and who have certainly been very far from a discredit to the profession; the women I know who have passed for the Bar in New Zealand have obtained it as the result of hard work, and every examination that a male requires to pass through they undergo, so that they have attained to the position after every ordeal which it is possible to put in their way to enable them to attain to a very high and honourable position, and the few who have passed have carried out their work in a most capable way and stand to-day very high in the esteem of the male members of the profession in New Zealand. I do hope that at this Conference, where we are trying to bring about mutuality and agreement, where we are trying to bring about the interchange of officers in the Defence Department, where we are trying to bring about the interchange of units in the Defence Organisation, we are not going to allow a question of pure sentiment which could be provided for by the most ordinary clause in the Order in Council, and the Imperial Act as I say provides already for reciprocity excepting for the fact that barristers and solicitors in New Zealand are combined while that is not so in England, should stand in the way so far as to prevent the carrying out of what was originally intended under the Imperial Act, the interchange between members of the professions.
I would personally look upon it as almost an insult to the members of the profession in England if they were to say they could not provide for an interchange by declaring it to be really on sentimental grounds which could be obviated in the Order in Council in the ordinary way. I can say with some experience of our country, that the profession in New Zealand, some of the leading members of the profession, regard the matter as of the deepest possible interest to their profession, and I am persuaded in my own mind that nine-tenths of the advantages would accrue to the men in England in the profession who want to have the opportunity of practising as barristers and solicitors, which they could do in New Zealand and which the leading barristers and solicitors in New Zealand themselves could not do if they came to England.
For the reasons I have urged as briefly as I can my views, I hope that the Conference may see its way to affirm the Resolution. The conditions required to meet the sentimental side of it can and would be provided for by Order in Council. I move the Resolution, my Lord.
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