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C.O.8

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Thirteenth Day.

8 May 1907.

NAVAL DEFENCE. (Lord Tweed- mouth.)

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do not know that I have very much more to add, except to say that we are anxious to meet you if we possibly can. If Australia makes up its mind to start something in the way of a local defence force, we are quite ready to give all the assistance we can to it. If New Zealand wishes to go on with the subsidy, again we are quite ready to arrange for that, or equally willing, if they prefer to go in for a submarine flotilla, to help in that. The same with regard to the Cape; we are quite ready to meet their wishes. If they in South Africa wish to try a submarine flotilla, we are quite ready to help. Also, in the meantime, I think we should be quite ready to try to arrange for But with regard to a training ship for the naval volunteers, and so forth. that, one particular point is that your volunteers are very desirous in South Africa to become a division of the Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve, and thereby obtain the name of " Royal." That depends, in the first place, on your passing an Act in your local legislature.

I do not think I could make a definite promise with regard to leaving a ship continually there. That is a matter for future consideration. Indeed, if this is to become part of the charge made on the subsidy, then I think as time goes on the expenses for a ship ought to be borne by the Colony as well.

Dr. JAMESON: As time goes on they will do very well for us, because we all say we ought to give more. In the meantime it will help with what we do.

Lord TWEEDMOUTH: We shall endeavour to carry on the arrangement with regard to a ship at present; but I would not like to pledge myself that for all time we should have a ship there. On the contrary, I think the proper thing would be that the training ship for your volunteers should be part of the Colonial force.

Dr. JAMESON: Out of the contribution?

Lord TWEEDMOUTH: Yes; I think that is all I can say. If any of the Prime Ministers would now say what they think, if I can meet them in any way, I shall be very glad.

Mr. DEAKIN: Lord Elgin and gentlemen, as Lord Tweedmouth mentioned Australia first, perhaps I may be permitted to say that the Commonwealth will recognise the extreme fairness, and generosity, with which he has met us. In conceding perfect freedom, notwithstanding the existence of an obligation which has yet several years to run, you have shown that in every possible manner you desire to keep in close accord with the feelings of the outer Dominions. In Australia, for reasons which have already been put on record in the despatch which I had the honour of addressing to the Admiralty about two years ago, the existing contribu- tion has not proved generally popular. It was passed because it was felt that some distinct recognition of our responsibility for the defence of our own country and of the Empire of which it is a part, was necessary, and though it did not take the form which commended itself most to the very large minority, possibly even a majority, of the electors we accepted that mode of co-operation until some better presented itself. Further consideration has convinced the public that the present agreement is not satisfactory either to the Admiralty, the political professional Lords of the Admiralty, or to the Parliament of the Commonwealth. In your case you find yourselves to a certain degree shackled even by the very general restriction as to the station

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of the fleet which is imposed by the present agreement. Originally, under the Thirteenth Day, Agreement of 1887, the Australian fleet was limited to Australian waters.

8 May 1907. When that agreement expired, another agreement was entered into by which a fleet or squadron of increased strength was provided, and its sphere of action NAVAL DEFENCE. enlarged to the China and Indian seas. As a consequence, it appeared to many (Mr. Deakin.) in Australia that the local protection which was its primary condition was so far departed from that it had practically ceased to exist. Nor could this new development of policy be challenged because all expert opinion agrees that the proper place for a defensive force is where it can deliver the best blows at any offensive force directed against it. It was quite probable that this would not be immediately on the coast of Australia, but rather in the Indian Ocean, or to the eastward towards the China seas. It is as much in the interest of the Commonwealth as of the Navy that whatever power it can bring to bear should be available wherever the enemy is to be found in force, but this meant the withdrawal from our coast of ships to which we have been accustomed to look for localised protection, and also for the world-wide operations of the British Navy. Their withdrawal brought more home to the public particularly of our great States on the seaboard the nature of the risks to which they must be exposed in the absence of the squadron. Practically every capital, with perhaps the single exception of Perth, is upon the sea; Sydney, Adelaide, and Hobart, are all easily approach- able from the sea. In the case of Melbourne, Port Phillip heads, and the forts there could, if effective, keep an attacking force at a distance. Yet, supposing the heads to be passed, Melbourne, too, would lie directly open to any attacks. Brisbane runs a somewhat similar risk. The Com- mittee of Imperial Defence, after giving this question full consideration, have decided that a regular attacking force is not to be anticipated in our Antipodean situation, under any circumstances that it is necessary to directly provide for in advance. They look forward to the possibilities of a raid, consisting in all likelihood of some four fast half-armoured or partly armoured cruisers, carrying forces of from 500 to, at the outside, 1,000 meu. Even an expedition of those small dimensions, calling for a very considerable provision in the way of fuel and other arrangements, would make only a transitory dash for our ports and shipping rather than a series of prolonged attacks. But, whatever the nature of the assault is to be, its possibility leaves the large population of our seaboard States with a sense of insecurity, emphasised by the probability of the withdrawal of the squadron some thousands of miles away to deal with the expected enemy there. Consequently, the demand for some harbour and coast defence has been pressed upon the minds of the people in general, and has been lately several times considered by Parliament. It is thought that while it may be the best possible naval strategy to withdraw the squadron to remote portions of the seas surrounding Australia, the contin- gency of our being raided, even by a few cruisers, and of our commerce being driven into the harbours or destroyed, or enclosed in the harbours, is not one that a community ought to contemplate unmoved. Hence our desire for the local protection to which you have already alluded. Our proposal to replace the existing agreement by the establishment of a force in Australian waters is not due to motives of economy. On the contrary though it will involve a greater expenditure upon maritime defence than we have ever undertaken believe that those proposals will be willingly accepted by Parliament. Of course we shall require to proceed by degrees, but even then the expenditure proposed will exceed the payment now made to the Admiralty, plus the payments that have been made for several years past upon such naval defences as we have retained. At all events, the present temper of the electors encourages me to believe that in the course of a few years we shall see, in proportion to our population, a fairly effective harbour defence, which may

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by the present agreement. Originally, under the stralian fleet was limited to Australian waters. d, another agreement was entered into by which a

Thirteenth Day,

8 May 1907.

l strength was provided, and its sphere of action NAVAL DEFENCE. dian seas. As a consequence, it appeared to many (Mr. Deakin.) protection which was its primary condition was so practically ceased to exist. Nor could this new allenged because all expert opinion agrees that sive force is where it can deliver the best blows ted against it. It was quite probable that this n the coast of Australia, but rather in the Indian towards the China sens. It is as much in the lth as of the Navy that whatever power it can vailable wherever the enemy is to be found in withdrawal from our coast of ships to which we look for localised protection, and also for the

· British Navy. Their withdrawal brought more larly of our great States on the seaboard the h they must be exposed in the absence of the capital, with perhaps the single exception of hey, Adelaide, and Hobart, are all easily approach-

case of Melbourne, Port Phillip heads, and the ctive, keep an attacking force at a distance. o be passed, Melbourne, too, would lie directly bane runs a somewhat similar risk. The Com- after giving this question full consideration, have tacking force is not to he anticipated in our any circumstances that it is necessary to directly They look forward to the possibilities of a raid, of some four fast half-armoured or partly armoured

from 500 to, at the outside, 1,000 men. Even au mensions, calling for a very considerable provision arrangements, would make only a transitory dash rather than a series of prolonged attacks. But, assault is to be, its possibility leaves the large States with a sense of insecurity, emphasised by drawal of the squadron some thousands of miles

sted enemy there. Consequently, the demand for efence has been pressed upon the minds of the been lately several times considered by Parliament. ay be the best possible naval strategy to withdraw ions of the seas surrounding Australia, the contin- even by a few cruisers, and of our commerce being

destroyed, or enclosed in the harbours, is not one contemplate unmoved. Hence our desire for the you have already alluded. Our proposal to replace the establishment of a force in Australian waters conomy. On the contrary though it will involve a naritime defence than we have ever undertaken als will be willingly accepted by Parliament. Of proceed by degrees, but even then the expenditure payment now made to the Admiralty, plus the ade for several years past upon such naval defences all events, the present temper of the electors hat in the course of a few years we shall see, in on, a fairly effective harbour defence, which may

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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

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C.O.885

COPYRIGHT

18 PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO