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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

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18 PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

Thirteenth Day.

8 May 1907.

COSATWISE TRADE.

(Mr. Deakiu.)

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to be identical with that as regards coasting trade. Thus, our treaties with Austria-Hungary, Greece, and certain other countries would have to be 'denounced before steps could be taken by legislation in the United Kingdom to reserve the trade between the United Kingdom and any of the Colonies. The carrying trade between Canada, India, and New South Wales could apparently be reserved,' if desired, without breach of any treaty, and, generally speaking, the treaty restrictions on the reservation of the inter-Colonial trade would seem to be less formidable than those applying to the Colonial trade with the United Kingdom, always assuming that inter-Colonial trade could, without breach of treaty or fear of retaliation, be assimilated to Colonial coasting trade. restriction of the trade between particular Colonies to British vessels would naturally he a matter for Colonial rather than Imperial legislation," and the question is raised whether it would not be possible even under all existing treaties to restrict the trade between the United Kingdom and any particular Colony to British vessels "by means of a colonial law, in cases in which the Colony passing such a law is not bound by treaty to admit foreign vessels to its coasting trade." That suggestion may have rather an important bearing upon a subsequent question we may be called upon to discuss.

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Speaking for the Commonwealth, it appears to us that attention having been invited to this question in 1902, it is possible that in the future the exercise of some of the powers referred to in that memorandum, or the occasion for their exercise, may arise suddenly. It would be well therefore to ascertain from the British Government what has been the result of any further inquiries which have been made in this direction either as to local powers or practical advantages or disadvantages of such reservations. If that be not a complete statement we can again re-affirm this resolution, so that further attention will be called to it in the hope of our obtaining some clear and precise understanding of what our powers are in this connection. We require knowledge which would guide us in forming an opinion as to what extent it would be judicious for us to exercise those powers. For the purpose of bringing this matter to a head, equipping ourselves for practical solutions when these may be necessary, and for bringing up to date the very interesting and valuable information contained in the additions to the Conference of 1902, the resolution before you is submitted for re-affirmation.

Sir WILFRID LAURIER: I quite approve for my part.

Sir JOSEPH WARD: This resolution, as Mr. Deakin has said, is a similar one to that moved by Mr. Seddon at the last Conference. I want to say what New Zealand did after his return. We introduced legislation affecting the whole coastwise administration, so as to insure that British ships had to a very large extent the advantage in our country. We did it by the altering, among other things, of our law as to the payment of wages and the general control of the ships. We do not allow outside ships to come down to our country and engage in coastwise trade at all. We have stopped that. We have done as America did.

Mr. DEAKIN: Do you allow them if they comply with the conditions?

Sir JOSEPH WARD: We do not allow an outside ship to trade on our coast. Since the resolution moved by Mr. Seddon in 1902, referred to by Mr. Deakin, we in New Zealand have gone in the direction of it to a very large extent. We have done it for a reason referred to by Mr. Deakin, because we felt keenly in our country the extraordinary position of

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being brought up when our ships get to Honolulu, and then not allowed to Thirteenth Day go on to trade with America. We had to withdraw a steamer for which we were paying a subsidy for carriage of passsengers and mails between New Zealand and England via America. "After 1902 the effect of this resolution was put into a statute in our country, and we are carrying it out.

Mr. DEAKIN Part of it.

Sir JOSEPH WARD: A part of it.

Mr. DEAKIN: This is general, and relates to the United Kingdom and the Colonies.

Sir JOSEPH WARD: We had a considerable amount of discussion at the Navigation Conference upon the very wide and difficult subject of controlling ships after leaving England, and before coming into our waters. We came to the conclusion that we could not interfere in any way whatever. We went on to suggest in the resolution there, which will come up for consideration of the various Governments later, and I think we all supported it, that such portions of the resolution passed there which either required legislation in our countries or elsewhere for bringing them into effect the respective Governments should take into consideration, with a view of giving effect to them. I am in most cordial agreement with Mr. Deakin in this, and support it very heartily upon the principle that we do not want to see injustice done to British shipping upon our coast when we have at least one great competitor, which has put into operation a very extended interpretation of coastwise law, which does not allow our ships to engage in trade on the Pacific Ocean from Honolulu to San Francisco. We are all the more anxious to see the system, so far as it can be put into operation, generally applied to any other portions of the Empire.

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: The only part of the resolution which really comes within the purview of the Imperial Conference is that which deals with the trade between the Mother Country and its Colonies and Possessions and between one Colony and Possession and another. The question of our coasting trade is a matter entirely for the British Parliament. Now I will just put the two or three considerations which occur to us which tend to make it inadvisable in my judgment that we should accept this resolution. It looks at first sight very simple and clear, with nothing but advantage to us, but on detailed consideration it will be seen to be otherwise.

Mr. DEAKIN: The resolution only says that it is desirable that the attention of the British Government and the Colonies should be called to the matter.

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: "And to the advisability of refusing the privileges of coastwise trade."

Mr, DEAKIN: Yes, to call attention to the advisability.

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: It really means a recommendation, if it means anything at all, because, I take it, our attention has been called to it by the Imperial Conference in 1902. The suggestion contained in the resolution would certainly not meet with approval on our part-namely, that we

8 May 1907.

COASTWISE TRADE. (Sir Joseph Ward.)