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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

Reference :-

C.O.885

18 PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO

Thirteenth Day.

8 May 1907.

TREATY QUESTION,

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4.

ALSO PRESENT :

The Right Honourable D. LLOYD GEORGE, M.P., President of the Board

of Trade.

*Mr. II. LLEWELLYN SMITH, C.B., Permanent Secretary to the Board of

Trade.

Mr. A. WILSON Fox, C.B., Comptroller-General of the Commercial,

Statistical, and Labour Departments of the Board of Trade.

Mr. G. J. STANLEY, C.M.G., of the Board of Trade.

Mr. ALGERNON LAW, of the Foreign Office.

The Right Honourable The LORD TWEEDMOUTH, First Lord of the

Admiralty.

The Right Honourable E. ROBERTSON, M.P., Parliamentary Secretary to

the Admiralty.

CAPTAIN OTTLEY, M.V.O., R.N., Director of Naval Intelligence.

Mr. W. GRAHAM GREENE, C.B., Assistant Secretary to the Admiralty.

Sir W. S. ROBSON, K.C., Solicitor-General.

TREATY QUESTION.

CHAIRMAN: We begin with the Treaty question.

Mr. DEAKIN Lord Elgin and gentlemen, if I may, I would like to hand in a draft embodying the general proposal which I have twice suggested for the consideration of the Conference. This I have now shaped, I think, into a more intelligible form, so that before we leave trade questions we might have an opportunity of seeing whether any co-operation is possible in this direction. I will read it: "This Conference recommends that in order to provide funds for developing trade, commerce, the means of communica- tion, and those of transport within the Empire, a duty of one per cent. upon all foreign imports shall be levied, or an equivalent contribution be made by each of its Legislatures. After consultations between their representa- tives in conference, the common fund shall be devoted to co-operative projects approved by the Legislatures affected, with the general purpose of fostering the industrial affairs of the Empire so as to promote its growth and unity." The one per cent. is fixed merely as a basis to start from, and the suggestion of an equivalent contribution made by each of the Legis- latures would, I hope, meet Sir Wilfrid Laurier's objection.

The plain provision that this fund is to be devoted to co-operative purposes approved by the Legislatures affected, preserves in the amplest way their powers of self-government and their control of this fund. If adopted, this would provide a means of co-operation in respect of the expenditure of the fund thus created. I will now circulate it.

CHAIRMAN: You do not propose to discuss it.

Mr. DEAKIN: Yes, I have asked for this twice before.

CHAIRMAN: We cannot possibly discuss it at this moment, because it

must go before the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: It is a Treasury matter.

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Mr. DEAKIN: I do not mean to discuss it now.

Dr. JAMESON: It must go before the Chancellor of the Exchequer if the Imperial Government contributes.

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: It is altogether a Treasury matter, whether duty or equivalent contribution?

Mr. DEAKIN: Yes. But the questions of better means of communica- tion and transport are matters to which you have specially referred more than once, and this is the means of providing a joint fund out of which those means could be financed.

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: Have you worked out roughly what it would come to ?

Mr. DEAKIN: I have some figures here, but they are not material. If preferential trade is ruled out, and the resolution we have passed practically disposes of it as far as this Conference is concerned, we are left in the void, We have now to look for additional means towards the same end.

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: By way of elucidating it, not by way of debating it, what does "equivalent contribution

" mean? For instance, take this case.

Our imports from foreign countries are over 400,000,000l. or something of that sort. Does that mean that we are to contribute at the rate of one per cent. on the merchandise imported into this Kingdom?

Mr. DEAKIN: The proposal is that you should either levy a duty of one per cent., or whatever percentage you agree upon; or contribute the same amount from any other source.

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: Do you mean contribute on the 400,000,0001. ?

measure equality of

Mr. DEAKIN: How otherwise could you contribution?

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: It is hardly what I call an equality of con- tribution. Dr. Jameson would contribute about 100,000l., and we 4,000,000l. That is not what I call equality, quite.

Mr. DEAKIN: It is if you look to the fact that you decide how your 4,000,000l. is to be spent.

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: We get an equivalent for it?

Mr. DEAKIN Yes, you may offer its equivalent.

Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: But you will not give us 40 votes to Dr. Jameson's one-I am not suggesting that.

Mr. DEAKIN: The proposal here is that you should practically control

the expenditure of your 4,000,000l., and we of our 400,0001., or whatever it is. Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: It is premature to discuss it now. I only want to know what amount we are to contribute. Supposing we had a sort of

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Thirteenth Day.

8 May 1907.

TREATY

QUESTION.