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LORD STRATHCONA: It would meet the purpose equally either to rescind on tu amend.

The CHAIRMAN: To rescind which?

LORD STRATHCONA: The Agreement.

The CHAIRMAN: That would mean the Commonwealth Agreement. LORD STRATHCONA : The Commonwealth Agreement.

The CHAIRMAN: Then the New South Wales Agreement would at once arise. LORD STRATHCONA: Oh no, no; but make provision for that that it should not have effect. I am looking to Sir Sandford Fleming; what might meet his views.

Sir SANDFORD FLEMING: I have had a good deal of difficulty in my case. would like to promote the settlement of the matter as much as possible.

The CHAIRMAN: Yes.

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Sir SANDFORD FLEMING: Meantime, I must conform to the instructions I have received, not once but several times in different ways.

The CHAIRMAN: But you have not received instructions, have you, to refuse, ▾ if I may say so, an advantageous amendment of the agreement which exists. Surely your powers are sufficient to accept that, provided that all your other rights are unaffected?

Sir SANDFORD FLEMING: Yes, these letters from the Government of New Zealand.

The CHAIRMAN: Yes, well, you see, that is the New South Wales Agreement. Sir Sandford FLEMING: The New South Wales Agreement.

The CHAIRMAN: We are asking here to put an end to it.

Sir SANDFORD FLEMING: And still more recently to the agreement introduced by Sir Edmund Barton.

The CHAIRMAN: Well, you see that both those offending documents are by this resolution modified in your favour, that is to say, one is altogether cancelled, the New South Wales Agreement, and we are asking the Commonwealth Government to amend what you call the Barton Agreement.

Sir SANDFORD FLEMING: Yes.

The CHAIRMAN: In a way which we all think satisfactory. That surely is all gain to you, is it not?

Sir SANDFORD FLEMING: I would have to consult the New Zealand Government. The CHAIRMAN: Well, I think we had better send this telegram for my own part; are you willing to assent to that?

The EARL OF JERSEY: Yes, I think I could send that telegram as being the views expressed by the majority. Could I not put it like that?

The CHAIRMAN: I think it is a great pity not to have unanimity upon this matter, I must say, but if we could have this properly written out for Sír Sandford, and if he could consider it apart from us for a little time, perhaps he would be able to say more definitely.

Sir SANDFORD FLEMING: Sir William Mulock has just suggested that that might be communicated to the New Zealand Government by yourself, as well as to the Commonwealth Government, and I could send my own expression.

Sir WILLIAM MULOCK: I thought we could prepare the way for receiving com- munications.

The CHAIRMAN: I have not relinquished the hope that Sir Sandford may see his way to saying that this, generally, is the resolution of the Conference, but I do not want him to do it at this very moment. Perhaps Mr. Reeves and Lord Strathcona would like to advise together upon the matter.

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Sir SANDFORD FLEMING: I did not know Mr. Reeves was here. He had not arrived at his office when I called there this morning.

Mr. PEMBER REEVES: My office is closed to-day as it is the King's birthday.

The CHAIRMAN: What we wish to do is that the Conference unanimously should give an invitation to the Commonwealth to give, by amendment, an interpretation to this Agreement which would bring it to an end in ten years or thereabouts, and which shall effectively substitute what we have called the Commonwealth Agreement for the New South Wales Agreement.

Mr. P'EMBER REEVES: It would be understood, of course, that that agreement should absolutely cease and determine.

The CHAIRMAN: Oh yes; we have got words which will make that absolute. Mr. PEMBER REEVES: Then, of course, would the Conference contemplate some- thing further, because supposing we get that I am supposing it simply for the sake of argument, that the Commonwealth agrees to that are we to be left for the next eight or nine years as we are, or is it proposed that this is to be a mere preliminary to negotiations?

The CHAIRMAN: It does not affect that position at all; it achieves the amendment of the Agreement.

Mr. PEMBER REEVES: Yes.

The CHAIRMAN: I believe in the sense in which it was intended by its authors originally, and then all members of the partnership, or what we have called the alleged partnership, are left with all their rights and all their remedies exactly as they are now. I think we all contemplate that this is only a first step in the negotiation for an arrangement by which there may be a more equitable adjust- ment of the traffic.

Mr. PEMBER REEVES: Yes, because certainly I fancy my Government's view would be that if you were simply to get the Commonwealth to agree to do this, as now contemplated, it would be doubtful whether we should be in a very much better position if nothing further followed. If we are going to fight the Eastern, you know it might be the view of my Government that we should absolutely take a stand on a repudiation of the rightness and propriety of any sort of Agreement between New South Wales or Australia, or any other Government, and the Eastern Extension Tele- graph Company, and that it might almost be better for us, if we are going to have war, to have war in the most uncompromising way possible. I may only suggest what my Postmaster-General's view might be, but I do not know whether this ought On the other hand, if to go down on the notes; of course, that is for you to say, Sir. this were to be part of the scheme under which we were both to get rid of that Agree- ment of 1913, and then possibly to put forward some friendly arrangement, then that might be a different thing.

The CHAIRMAN: Yes, our hopes are to have a friendly arrangement before 1913. Mr. PEMBER REEVES: Yes.

The CHAIRMAN: At any rate, I think from what you have said that you are in agreement with us, that nothing that is proposed to be done now by the Conference to-day, nothing that is, say, in the invitation to the Commonwealth which has been read, will in any degree prejudice the rights or remedies of New Zealand, nor any other partners of the cable.

Mr. PEMBER REEVES: No, I think that probably is so, Sir, unless as I say my Government prefers to retain an absolutely uncompromising attitude, in the belief that we are bound to fight and that nothing else is possible. That, however, would be a matter, I should say, for communication between Sir Sandford Fleming and possibly myself with the New Zealand Government. We might, by cable, discuss that matter with them, and indicate to them whether we thought this was the best we were likely to get, or whether they had better not assent to it. Of course I do not wish to delay, or to suggest anything which would delay, action, Sir. but Sir Sandford is somewhat governed by instructions.