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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC-

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24 June 1900

MAURITIUS ROYAL COMMISSION, 1909.

Sir CAVENDISH BOYLE, K.C.MG

1334 We were told there were no Visiting Justices here? - The majority of them are public otherals They are suiting boards, who perform all the functions of is visiting justice elsewheri

1335 Have those boards any kind of control? - They claim more than they hare, some of them. I will not say all. The Railway Board works most excellently

The Woods and Forest and is an advisory board

I think that the Com Board is an advisory board mittee on Education do interfere a good deal with the administration, and claim to do so.

133 I fort that this is a question of very great importance Can you say that in most cases the mem hers of these boards have got technical knowledge of the departments with which they deal?-Outside the

ficials, 1 should say no.

1337 Then does not it place over a man who is supposed to have technical knowledge people who have home? Take for instance, the Railway Board -The Railway Board I specified as working as an advisory ward to the general manager, and I think they seldom interfere with any of the technical details. Their chief function is as to giving credits; to advise as to tram- ways; to advise as to railways and railway stations generally, and they have nothing to do with the execu tive part of the work, which is controlled by the general

manager

It

133 1 have read in the papers which were given to -I was not searching through the paper with that object, but it just happened that I came across it—an instance in connection with the Railway Board was a question of the cost of carrying canes, and 1 found that the majority of the members of the board differed with the responsible Officer of the Government Railways na to the raising of the price for the warringe of canes?—Probably they would do so.

1339. Now surely you could not get a better in stance of what I am driving at than that?-The non- qualified interference?

1340. Yes, and possibly the interested interference -That case has happened, but, of course, whilst the Government would listen to the representations of the case like that, their minority or the majority in u decision is not final.

1341. Then, what is the use of the board? To me, the board appears to be nothing but an interference with the work of a Government officer who is trying his best to do his job. He is hampered now and then by a number of people who keep interfering with him. Why is that so-Í have never heard any complaint from the general manager to that effect; he would I rather think that he welcomes their complain. assistance.

1342. But would he complain in Mauritius -I think so.

The institution of that board-1 do not know exactly when it dates from; I think it is of considerable age-

1348. I see here in this book there are the Woods and Forests Board, the General Board of Health, Quarantine Committee, Central Prisons Board, the Prison Board of Bavanne, and the Prison Board of Flacq -Yea, those I mentioned.

1344. The Hurricane Loan Board ?--Yea.

1345. Then, many district boards; then, the Rail- way Board; the directors of the Mauritius Institute Board. I have no knowledge of anything of this kind sa being anywhere else, that is why it strikes me peculiar P-1t is peculiar to this Colony, I imagine. 1346. It is good, in your opinion ?--It is a vent. 1347. Surely this must clog the wheels of Govern. ment with an energetic officer who is trying to do his boat for his department, if he is interfered with by people whom he knows can have no technical know- fedge. Surely that cannot be for the gool of the public service ?--I think it is a system which may he open, of course, to objections; at the same time, I am not at all sure that it makes for ill here. I have heard a considerable amount of complaint of the difficultion with which the education officer has to contend, and I think there is no doubt that he suffers more than any other officer in that way. As regards the Railway Board,

I have never heard any complaint. That is a significant case which you mentioned, however.

[Continued

1348 With regard to the Woods and Forests Board. is that of any use-I came here and found that an expert had been sent from India with regard to the He had recently left, and question of reafforestation.

he eventually reported. That the matter did not see larger proportions was due solely to the fact that the then Secretary of State, in the crisis of 1904. decided that it was necessary to postpone all measures in connection with the question of reafforestation But there was no doubt about it that the officer who was sent here to report-and a very able officer he was- was largely hampered in the work which he had to per form for the Government in consequence of his dealings with that board, and the difficulties with which he had to contend.

1349. But ne regards the Woods and Forests Board. is it of any use? If anything were done, if anything energetic were done in the way of reafforestation. would that board be of the smallest use -I am not prepared to say. I do not think it is an absolute necessity Their utility, I think, is limited to minor matters, but, of course. the absurdity of the thing. on the face of it, in that the Chairman of the Woods and That. Foresta Board is my principal legal adviser however, serves to a certain extent a useful purpose, though it looks so absurd, because there are certain matters connected with the details of ownership of land, and it is useful to have a au with a legal mini at the head of a board of that description in connection with them. In that respect the board serves a useful purpose

1350. I take it, the object of any Forest Board of Mauritius, where there appear to be no forests, would be mainly to plant trees-That, the department, of course, is concerned in. I should be very glad to see a capable and energetic head of each department, able to administer the affairs of his department without having recourse to these boards, were it possible.

1351. Is there any expenditure incurred in conse quence of these boards-I think their transport ia made a charge to the Government; beyond that, I do not think there is any expenditure. I think their clerks or secretaries are generally paid officials. There may be some slight charge on this head; I think the Forests Board clerk gets something extra, and I fancy the railway man gets something extra.

1352. They do cause a slight additional expendi. ture ?--Yes.

1353. (Mr. Woodcock.) I notice there is an item for conveyance, under "Prisons"--conveyance of members of the Prison Board, and the estimate, as approved is Rs. 400 for 1908-9, and the estimate for 1909-10 is Rs. 300-I think you will find that in connection with most of them. I have just mentioned the Forest Department.

Yes.

1354. You have just given that as an example — The Secretary of the Woods and Forests Board, you will also see, has Rs. 500, and there is travelling allowance and subsistence allowance; carriage hire and refreshment of the Board, Rs. 300.

1355. (Chairman.) What do you say with regard to the development of local industries? Do you think that there is any local industry, such, for instance, as the aloe fibre industry, which is capable of large development - Large development, no; moderate development, yes.

1356. Is it in the hands of small cultivators as a rule P-As a rule.

1357. Would they require any assistance ?-By small cultivators, I mean that they are not like the large sugar estate owners. There are men of what I may call the better class engaged in it.

1358. Not only natives No, that is what I wish to point out. I think that the majority-there are a few factories are of the better class. They employ men to collect the aloes. Practically the whole of the alon which are collected and are made into fibre are growing wild; there are very few planted estates.

1359. It was suggested that they were grown on those parts of the estate which could not grow sugar ? -Yes, there is no doubt about that, but a great many of them are growing wild. There is a large amount of abandoned sugar estates whereon the plants grow.

24 June 1909

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE.

Sir CAVENDISH BOYLE, K.C.M.G.

1360. Do you think there is nothing to be done by Government with regard to the fibre cultivation P-I think that if any approach was made by people noeding I think it is an assistance. it might be taken up. industry which should be given encouragement, but 1 hive never heard of anybody approaching the Govern. ment for any assistance; I mean it is not extensive in any sort of way, but that it could be made more extensive I have no doubt.

1381. It is promising ?-It is promising. As usual in all sugar growing Colonies the staple industry has all the attention, and these other industries have to get what they can. The cultivation of tea, I think. could be extended also.

1362. You think that also is promising P-Oh, yes. An All that has been done has been successful. attempt was made to foster the tea industry here by protection, but it did not meet with success.

1363. What do you say with regard to coconute ?—— Coconuts grow very sparsely here. The result of my investigation which I have made since I knew your wishes is that there is very little cultivation.

1364. Is there any reason why it should not be grown ?-They will not grow on these uplands at all. 1365. Has it been tried P-Yes, it has been tried. 1366. A witness whom we examined yesterday thought that coconuts would do extremely well, and the only objection was that people would have to wait six or seven years before they got any return P—I should he very sorry to contradict him, but at the same time, from the enquiries I have made, and from what I have been informed, they would not grow on the higher lands here.

1367. Do you know that that is so as the result of experiment P-Oh, yes.

1368. The reason that I ask that question is that for many years I was told that a coconut would not grow 50 miles from the seashore P-That may be so, but then you were not told that they would grow at a certain elevation in a damp climate.

1369, No, but I was told that they would not grow 50 miles away from the seashore P-I know very well that is an absurdity, because coconuts grow right away inland for a considerable number of miles, but they will not grow in these uplands,

1370. They will not grow at this high elevation ?- Whether it is the height or the climate, I do not

know.

1371. Can you explain why they have not been tried P-There was no demand, and the cost of trans- port is enormous, of course.

1372. The cost of transporting nuts P-Yes, to the market.

copra,

1373. But then, now-a-days, nuts are made into which is very easily transported ?-That is a change in the aspect which has taken place since the idea of growing coconuta as a commercial enterprise has been entirely abandoned here.

1374. It is within my knowledge a very sound investment for small cultivatore, because the copra will always find a ready market at a good price. A coconut tree needs hardly any attention after it is three or four years old, and you simply have to sit and gather the nute; the only thing that is required is to keep the trees from enemies, especially the beetle! If i may make one suggestion with regard to the freedom from enemies, there is also the cyclone.

1875. About that we are told by different autho. rities in the Island different tales-I believe that a coconut tree suffers more than almost any other known tree.

1376. We asked that very question of the witness yesterday, and he said no ?—I differ from him.

1977. I asked about rubber. Do you know any reason why that should not succeed P-You can see here, in the plantation which I have, to what extent the trees suffered in the storm of 1908, and those which I have no survived were considerably thrown back. doubt they wore thrown back at least a twelvemonth, and I suppose about 20 per cent. of the young_map- lings were damaged, but the surviving trees are doing It remains to be seen whether they will very well now. finally succeed or not. I do not know whether they will

[Continued

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or not. I am only trying it, and I should be glad to see rubber growing here.

1378. Have you got any Government garden-an experimental garden?-Oh, yes, both at Pample- mousses and at Curepipe, and here at Réduit we try all the experiments we possibly can.

1379. I ask this question, because it appears that a Government experimental garden does not induce the planter of the place to take advantage of the experiments that are made, it is no good to have a garden which must cost a considerable sum ?—The planter, of course, has his own garden for sugar experimental growing at the Station Agronomique. With regard to the others, I do think the general public take a keen interest in them now, and benefit by them, and largely apply for the advantages which are offered to them, but the result of what has been going on for the last three or four years would better be given by the members of the Woods and Forests Board and also by Mr. Harchenroder, the head of the Board.

it. do so.

1380. But from your own knowledge you would not abolish it P-Undoubtedly not, I would increase If I could get an agricultural expert here, I would

1381. You are in favour of an agricultural expert | -Undoubtedly.

..

1382. You mean such a man as they have, for instance, in Ceylon P-Undoubtedly. The Chamber of Agriculture and the Station Agronomique have now joined hands with regard to that, and the Station Agronomique has agreed to place at the disposal of the Chamber of Agriculture a certain sum, particulars of which reached me quite recently.

1383. You have an Observatory in Mauritius, have you not ?-We have.

1384. Is that a valuable institution P-It supplies a considerable number of returns and documents to the outside world for which we get no compensation. It is of great use locally during the cyclone season, inasmuch as it warns people of the approaching storms. I should be sorry to see it done away with.

1385. Could it be reduced P-That is doubtful. I do not think the head man is too highly paid, and I am sure the second man is not too highly paid.

1386. Have you two men in the Observatory?—I think there are four. They are not all in charge, but I think, there are four employed there.

1387. It costs Rs. 20,600 ?—Yes. I made attempts to get from the Imperial Government, the Government of India, and the Government of the neighbouring South African Colonies some contribution in return for the details which were supplied to them; they are,

I believe, of value to them, but I did not succeed.

1388. I nee you have a director at Rs. 5,000 P-Yea. 1889. And an assistant director at Rs. 4,000 P— That is so.

1390. In there Rs. 1,000 provided by law P-Yee, Rs. 1,000 provided by law and Rs. 5,000 voted.

1891. You do not think that could be reduced P~~- For that sort of very scientific work you want s qualified man; it is no use getting an unqualified man, and he has to live during the cyclone season at the Observatory, which is excessively unhealthy. There has always been a great outory against that by every occupant of the post. I do not think a service of that description can be regarded as a luxury entirely, and it does very useful work.

1392. There is one department I omitted to sak you about. You have an officer here called the Storekeeper General P-Tea.

1393. Do you think that his department is a necessity ?--I have already expressed myself very strongly and explicitly on that subject to the Secretary of State, but my recommendations have been negatived. 1394. Do you propose to reduce the department or to do away with it?—I should like to reduce it even more than it has been reduced, and in that connection to establish what is a crying necessity, a proper store branch in the railways.

1995. Have not the railways got a storekeeper of their own!—No, not a proper one, and that has long If I could see the Storekeeper General's

been needed.