PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE
Reference :-
C.O. 882
7
PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO
8
MINUTES OF EVIDENCE:
Mr. P. to 1899 it averaged 449,000 tons. In this and last I Thomson. year it has averaged 548,000 tons, and I have no doubt
that this expansion is greatly due to cheap silver.
13 Nov. 1972.
258. (Chairman.) Have you lived in Singapore P-I have visited Singapore; I have never lived at Singa- pore,
259. Have you lived at Sarawak, Bangkok, Chieng Mai, Batavia, or Sourabaya?-Only for a year at a
time.
260. And how long have you been doing business with these places ?-The company?
261. No; you, personally ?-Forty years.
262. And in Singapore your business is mainly the import of European goods and the export of Eastern produce? And general agency business.
263. And general agency business for steamers 7-Yes, general merchants' business.
264. And you are interested in the coaling business of the port-The coaling business, yes.
265. Now, what has been the effect of the fall of silver on your business?-I believe that the effect of the fall of silver has been a good one.
266. It has been good P-Taken altogether it has been very good.
267. In what way?-It has enabled us to develop in many parts our planting and our mining, and it has given us a much greater bulk of business."
268. Is this the way in which it has enabled you to develop your planting that you got a larger number of rupees for the produce than you otherwise would have got?-A larger number of dollars, yes.
269. And that your charges did not increase in pro- portion They do not increase in proportion.
270. Did they increase at all P-For a long time they did not increase at all. They have increased lately, but I am not sure that it is due entirely to exchange this has been a very good time, and the business has been very good generally, and that has made a great demand for labour. The great movement in our parts in rise of wages was subsequent to the plague regulations; at the same time there was a great demand for labour in the Malay Peninsula for tin mining, in our part for the pepper industry, which is very good.
271. If the fall in silver made your business mora profitable, there would be a tendency to extend it, would there not ?—Yes.
272. And that would mean an additional demand for labour ?—Yes.
273. And would that tend to raise wages?-Yes, if your supply of labour was limited.
274. Quite so-Yes, it would raise wages.
275. Then, have you lost in any respect P-Oh, yes, we have lost a lot. We are a sterling company, and we had a considerable portion of our capital, and some borrowed money, too, in the East, and we had to write down.
276. You have had to write downf-To write down. 277. But if your business was becoming more pro- fitable owing to the fall in silver, would not the capital value of your business tend to rise from that on use?→→→ Well, I think it does rise. I think people in trade turn- ing over their dollars out there do get a better return, and have got a better return.
278. Suppose, for example, you had £100,000 in a plantation, and, we will suppose it was worth £100,000, that you had spent £100,000 on it, and that it should sell for £100,000; if, owing to the fall in silver, the planting business became more profitable from that cause the value of the plantation ought to rise 7-That is right, and it does riaa.
279. It does rise? It does rise. I was talking about our floating capital. The other we turn into sterling and write down, keep it safe, and I think we are right in considering as we consider, that investments in plantations, although we have written them down to a certain extent, are more valuable than they were when there was a smaller trade doing,
280. Even measured in starling ?-Measured in ster- ling; certainly I do.
281. But your floating capital --Our floating capital; I believe it also: If you get $100,000 or $1,000,000 in
the East, and can do a bigger business with it, having the dollars there and doing your business, and having the opportunities of doing your business, I believe, the dollars are more valuable, but we are a sterling com- pany, and, of course, we have to write that down.
282. The business is more profitable ?-More profitable. 283. Your $1,000,000 produce more?-Yes, that is my opinion.
284. Now, as regards the planting business, silver having fallen, you have got larger dollar prices for your produce. The dollar was not worth so much, but you got more of them?-Got more of them, yes.
285. And wages did not rise?—At first,
285. At first. Was not that rather hard on the man who earned wages because he was paid the same number of dollars and they were of less value?-Well, he lived very well. One can watch it better probably in Sarawak than in a larger place. There is no poverty there;
never was.
287. But still, if a man gets the same number of dollars, and they are worth less, he cannot be as well off as he was before when they were worth more ?-Till 1897 I should say he lived as cheaply. All he wanted to do was to save a fow dollars. That is, with the ultimate hope in many cases carried out, to go back to China. If he had $200 he went back to China, and they say he would live very well there.
288. Of course he wanted to save a few dollars, but he would have liked to have saved more if he could have done it; we would all like that?-I do not think it was a real hardship to the man, as far as I could judge.
289. You think that persons employing their capital in trado have, on the whole, benefited from the fall in silver, as far as it has gone?-As far as I can judge, 1 think so.
290. And you have formed that opinion after, con- sidering what has happened, not in Singapore only, but in China, Siam, and Sourabaya-Yes. Well, of course, Singapore practically produces nothing, so silver effects must be looked for in the places that send their produce and buy their imports in Singapore,
291. Now you say that Java, where there has been a gold standard, has not prospered in the same degree as Bingapore? It has not at all. I am talking of my own experience; I should say very far from it.
292. Your own experience?—Yes.
COMMITTEE ON STRAITS SETTLEMENTS CURRENCY.
oreasing from 1857 to 1800-They have gone on in- aressing. In 1857 was the Treaty of Siam, when foreign merchants and my company, along with the other foreign merchants, went in, and, of course, there is naturally a considerable increase, but you will see that lately the increase is greater.
306. Well, looking at the figures that you give me here of the rice exported from Siam, I see that the in- crease there was from an average of 60,000 tons in 1857- 59, to an average in the next ten years of 104,000 tons, in the succeeding ten years of 161,000 tons, and 260,000 tons in 1880-89, and then 449,000 tons in 1890-99 - increase of about 60 or 70 per cent. in each period 7- Yes. Of course the percentage-1 had not worked out the percentage.
307. No; but it would be something like that?-It would be something like that.
RICK EXPORTS FROM SIAM 1857 TO 1901.
1857
80,000 tons.
זי
נו
1858
1859
70,000
50,000 "
*
Average 1857 to 1859
60,000
17
1860
1881
93,000 128,000
.
1862
1863
1864
92,300 # 104,000 137,000
1865
2,00)
1886
88,400
1887
111,500
1888
123,300
"
1889
160,000
"
Average 1860 to 1869
104,000
1870
152,000
++
1871
110,700
1872
125,000
1873
31,500
"
1874
1875
1876
1877
1878
1879
Average 1870 to 1879
118,400 **
233,600 " 250,800
185,00 # 141,700 $240,000
181,000 "
"
11
1880
205,000
1881
22!,000
·
295. Because, of course, it would not be fair to measure the increase of the one in gold and of the other in silver-No. I have not got the figures.
1882
199,500
"
1883
158,200
1884
283,900
296. You have not got the figures P-No; I only thought of being in this Committee two or three days
1885
217,200
1886
215,200
M
ago,
1887
396,700
297. You say here the import businese is in a deplor- able state in Java P-It is very bad just now,
1888
449,900
298. The losses by debts have been heavy ?-Very heavy.
1889
254,000
Average 1880 to 1889
280,000
1890
476,100
1891
220,500
1892
203,900
"
300. To the best of your belief P--And certainly the increase in prosperity there has been very great in the last few years since we had low exchange.
1893
627,400
**
1894
307,4000
H
1895
464,000
1890
457,600
+i
1897
557,600
519,200
T
1899
453,300
Average 1890 to 1899
449,400
293. You say the export and import trade have not developed in the same way ?-No.
294. Have you got figures of the export and import P- No, I have not.
299. Sarawak and Lower Siam are on a silver basis, and you say that in Sarawak the lower exchange has benefited you to a large extent, and assisted the develop- ment of Sarawak P--To my belief, very much.
301. You are specially interested in Siam outside the ordinary import and export trade?-Yes, we have got mills there-rice and teak mille and we have also got teak forests. The teak forests are on the rupee.
302. Has Siam been prosperous to any extent ?—Yes, very prosperous of late years.
303. The rice export has risen?—Oh, very considerably rison,
304. That might be due to seasons in Siam and else where 7-Well, that is the greatest influence on the crops of Siam. Of course, it varies very much in seasons, because the rains are very irregular in Biam.
305. In fact, the exports of Siam have gone on in-
1898
1900 1901
Average 1900 to 1901
414,000 tons.
082,000 5-48,0M)
"
9
308. I see that the increase in the decade from 1860 to 1860, the percentage of increase at a time when silver was not falling, is practically the same as at the time silver was falling ?--You see previously to that there were no mills, but mills came in in 1867. There were four or five mills built in the next few years. There was no export practically, at least, some petty export, but no practical export before that.
309. Have they made any railways in Siam They have got one railway up to Korat.
310. But still it has increased 7-Yes.
311. Then I gather from your evidence that you would not be in favour of changing the standard of the Straits
Settlements from silver to gold I am generally in favour of it; all I say is that so far the fall in silver has. as far as I can judge, been a benefit.
312. Been a benefit ?--I do not know enough about the subject to say that a fixed exchange at the present basis would not be a good thing.
313. You mean at 1. 8d. ?—At 1«. 8d.
314. What would you say if it were proposed to put the dollar at 28. --I do not think 2s. would be as good as 1s. 8d., but if it is settled at once, I do not know that we would object to 2s. Mind, as far as I can judge, but, of course, this is rather beyond one. I should think it is an exceedingly difficult thing to arrange, as you get Mexican dollars.
315. We have not come to that question yet I am merely asking, supposing it were possible, whether you think it expedient-I do not think it would do any good, as far as I know.
316. Well, if it would not do any good, it would be better not to do it ?-Well, I should think it would be better to be left alone.
317. And, holding these views, I suppose you are not prepared to suggest any plan by which the Straits Set- Elementa could pass from a silver standard to a gold standard ?—I could not venture upon that.
318. (Mr. Adamson.) Would it be within your know ledge that there has been a great increase in the value of land and property in Singapore within the last four or five years-Yes, it is within my knowledge that there has been a very large increase.
319. And rents have very largely risen ?--Very largely. 320. And the cost of conducting a business has very largely risen Yes. The cost of conducting-yes, I should say it is greater. Of course, it must be greater.
321, (Chairman.) Is not that measured in silver- Measured in silver.
322. Measured in silver--the prices have risen ?— Well, you see, in fact, beyond the fall in silver this great prosperity has given a lot of people money, and they have bought up the land in Singapore.
323. I was not asking the causes of it, but prices have risen very much measured in silver?-In gold, too. 324. And you think even in gold ?-Oh, I am sure, 325. Of course the rise would not be so grout measured in gold? No.
326. But you think even measured in gold there has been a rise --Very considerable.
327. (Mr. Blain.) Your chief reason is, I understand, that you think the countries on a silver standard, so far as your experience goes, have done better than those on a gold standard ?—Yes.
328. Do you know anything of Japan in particular?--- No, I do not know anything of Japan.
Mr. P.
D. Thomson.
13 Nov. 1902.
6849.
B
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