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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

Reference :-

TIT CO. 882

TIT

7PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE, LONDON

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MINUTES OF EVIDENCE:

Mr. T H. present? The imports increased from $77,000,000 odd Whitehead. to $283.000,0007—Yes, that is exclusive of treasure.

1694. And the exports increased from $71,000,000 Jan. 1903. oli to $245,000,000 oild ?—Yes.

1695. But during that time the price of silver fell from about 51d. per oz. to, shall we say, 30d, per oz. 1-Yes.

1696. And that tended, of course, to increase the aggregate amount of the imports and the exports as mea- sured in dollars?—As measured in dollars, yes, un- doubtedly; but I think it is extremely doubtful that the increase would have been a great as it has been had the Straits not had an adequate supply of money of the standard that had been legalised.

1607. Even if you re-valued these figures in guld with reference to the price of silver in 1881 and 1901, there would still be a large increase shown 1-There would still be a large increase.

1608. You also in your memorandum give figures showing the imports and the exports of dollars into the Straits Settlements 7-Yes; the net annual imports of treasure during that period of 21 years is $1,583,808 or a total of $33,259,973.

1699. I see that the net imports from 1994 to 1901 were very large 1-Very large.

1700. Do you think those figures are accurate?—I believe them to be accurate.

1701. You also point out that the public income or revenue has very largely increased between 1881 and 1901 7-Yes.

1702. What is that income chiefly derived from?- I have not gone into the details-but it would not be difficult matter to get it.

1703. (Mr. Adamson.) Opium and spirits mainly 1 (31r. Jchnion.) That is the largest single item. (Mr. Adamson.) The largest single item.

(Mr. Johnson.) But it does not amount to more than ne-fourth or one-sixth.

(Mr. Adamson.) Stamp duties are one item. (hairman.) What are the chief items spirits and opium 1

(Mr. Adamson.) I think spirits, opium and stamps. 1704. (The Secretary.) Stamps are a considerable item; land rents are a considerable item 1-Land rents.

1705. (Chairman.) Well, you point out that the income has very largely increased between 1881 and 19017-Yes, enormously.

1706. In fact, it is nearly three times as great as it was-Very nearly three times.

1707. And you also point out that the imports and exports of merchandise of the Federated Malay States have very largely increased 1-Enormously,

1708. In what year did the British Government tako over, more or less, the administration of the Federated Malay States 7-1 think it is within the last-

(Mr. Adamson.) 1874 was it not; ago?

(Mr. Johnson.) About 1874.

about 25 years

1709. (Chairman.) I see that in 1881 the imports. into the Federated Malay States were put down at $3.289.0001-Yes.

1710. In 1901 they were $39,524,000 In 1901 $53.000,000, I think.

1711. No, you are looking at the exports; I am talk- ing of the imports 7-Yes, $39,000,000.

1712. That is an enormous increase 7-Immense; about 13 times.

(Mr. Adomain.) The country was developing. 1713. (Chairman.) Do you know in what articles that increase chiefly occurs -In imports.

1714. In imports --I have no knowledge.

1715. The exports on the other hand increased from $3,032,000 to $63,107,000—Yes

1716. That is an enormous increase ?-Immense, yes; gigantic. That, I think, is mainly tin.

1717. You do not know whether these figures include treasure -The ofizial returns do not state whether they include treasure.

1718. And you point out that the income of the

Federated Malay States has increased very much in the same proportion 7-About 17 times.

1719. And I understand that you would strongly object to change the gold value of the silver dollar from 1a 6d, which is approximately its present value, to 3s. I think that to do so suddenly would involve many people in disaster, if not in bankruptcy.

1720. You consider that 3s. is about the basis on which the Indian standard was changed from silver to gold That is so, yes, about 3s.

1721. And you are of opinion that that basis applied to the Straits Settlements at the present time would be disastrous 2-Would be disastrous-positively disas trous if applied suddenly.

1722. I gather that you would be in favour of an international agreement to settle the relative value of gold and silver 7-Most assuredly.

1723. Do you think that is a practical question at the pressut day at the present time-I am afraid that the divergence between the two metals has grown so immense, one country after another has legislated against silver, degraded and discredited it, that at the present time I very much fear that there is very little possibility of any such agreement being come to, expe- cially if the British Government continue to hold aloof as they systematically have done hitherto, though Great Britain is interested to an enormous extent.

1724. You are of opinion that certain classes of the people of India, and certain branches of the commerce and industry of that country have suffered from the change-Yes, I do hold that opinion.

1725. You give a quotation from a circular, recently issued by an association which is described as the Indian Currency Reform League? Yes, I am not acquainted with the League in question nor its members. I do not know who its members are, but in the course of reading the Indian papers I came into contact with it, and I thought it might be of interest to include it in the memorandum which I sent in.

1726. If India has suffered so much by adopting a gold standard at 1s. 4d. for the rupee in place of the old value of 28., the countries which had ▲ gold standard all along must have suffered very much more?

I think there is very little doubt about that.

1727. Do you think that is the case-I do not think there is any doubt about that. It has ruined the prin- ripal industry in this country, namely, agriculture, and transferred wealth from one pocket to another repre- senting hundreds, if not thousands of millions of pounds.

1728. Well, this country had a gold standard, and the United States had a gold standard, and Canada had a gold standard, and at the time that agriculture suffered so much in this country, it seems to have pros. pered in the other two countries, because the exporta of agricultural produce from those countries have had a great effect in bringing down the prices of agricultural produce in Groat Britain There are other influences at work. In America they have a protective tariff, and all classes of the people of the United States are living on a higher platform-a higher level entirely. They can manufacture goods and ship them abroad at prices which defy competition in this country mainly through the instrumentality of this protective tariff.

1729. But how could a protective tariff, protective as regards manufactures, enable them to ship wheat more cheaply 1-The consumption of wheat in their country is paid for at very high prices, at so high prices that they can afford to sell in markets outside of Americs their surplus productions of grain and manufactured goods at a very much lower figure, and still make a profit by so doing. In fact they can and do defy our competition in many branches of manufactured goods, and with such overwhelming advantages in their favour will more and more be able to do so.

1730. But the price of wheat in America must be lower than the price in this country, because wheat is exported from America to this country --Their surplus products are exported, yes.

1731. But the price of wheat which they consume themselves must be lower than the price of wheat in this country, otherwise no business man would ship wheat from a place where it was dear to a place where it was cheap 7-Well, no; not naturally so, and they must have food to exist.

1752. You point out that the real currency in actual use in India continues to be silver —That is wa

COMMITTEE ON STRAITS SETTLEMENTS CURRENCY.

1733. And you think it will continue for an indefinite time to be silver?-I think for an indefinite period.

1734. You also point out that, notwithstanding that free coinage of silver was stopped in India and an import duty of 5 per cent, imposed on the metal, large amounts of silver have continued to be imported into India?→ Yes, very large amounts are still going in every week.

1735. And you point out also that the Indian Govern- ment has had at times to import large amounts of silver for coinage into rupees ?-In 1900-1901 they had to buy about £6,000,000 sterling worth of silver for the purpose of coinage, which increased the gold price of silver in this market from about 27d, to 30d.-about that.

1736. And the Indian Government now makes a large profit on the coinage of silver into rupees?—Yes, very large.

1737. And there would be a profit now on making rupees-false rupees, counterfeit rupees-in good silver, of nearly 90 per cent. P-Yes, about 90 per cent.

1738. And there would be a still larger profit in counterfeiting guilders in the same way, because they are coined, I imagine, at about 60d. to the ounce ?—They are coined at 524.

1739. 52d., are they; well, that is higher than the Indian basis?—Yes; India is 42d., and the guilder is on the basis of about 52d. It was originally, I believe, 60d., but it was ultimately reduced to about 62d.

1740. And there would be a still greater profit in counterfeiting half-crowns and shillings in this country? -Oh, far greater. In connection with illicit guilder coins I have not had very much time to look back over our records, but I did find the following in vas of our letters. The following paragraph appeared in "The Times" of 21st August, 1895:-

"Our Singapore correspondent, writing under date of 24th July, says that an object lesson in one disadvantage of a silver coin with an artificial value may be found in the Netherlands Indies. There the silver guilder is retained by legislation at its old value, while the silver of which it is made is worth only about a half of what it used to be. As a consequence coining factories have been established in China to export guilders to the Netherlands Indies. They turn out coins of exactly the same fineness and weight as the Mint-coined guilders, and dispose of them in the Netherlands Indies at a great profit. It is estimated that nearly two millions of such Counterfeit coins have been put in circulation in recent years, and the evil threatens to increase.”

Between 1894 and 1896 the bank I am connected with Found quantitics, hundreds of illicit guilder coins in shipments made from the East to Holland. The false We coins were seized by the police and confiscated. could only obtain three specimens on guaranteeing the Dutch Government that the coins would not again be put into circulation. The illicit or false coins were so com. plete an imitation of the genuine coine that our officials in the Straits and Java could not detect the falsely uttered money. In consequence our bank has since re- fused to buyguilder coins unless we can obtain a satisfac- tory guarantee from the seller undertaking to refund the cost of the coins found to be illegal and confiscated. Thus action checked the issue of false coins, but I have reason to believe there are a large number of false silver guilders in circulation, but care is taken not to present them to the banks, who by mutual agreement give the holder the option of allowing them to be cut or having the matter placed in the hands af the police.

1741. Is that your own evidence P-Yes, that is my own evidence. The banks have an agreement; I may tell you that in Java the Erohange Banks, when they find these illicit coins, at once give the owner of them the option of having them cut in two or handed over to the police. Instances of having these false coina tondered at the banks is less frequent than it used to be. Quite recently one of our bank's agents in the Malay States wrote home: "During the past few days there are reports of a good number of counterfeit dollar coins being in circulation; the counterfeit is somewhat diffi- cult to detect, the outside of the coin being of silver, the design of which is identical with that of the genuine coin, the interior is of a black kind of metal; the weight of the spurious coin is practically the same as a genuine coin, and the ring of the false coin requires an expert to detect the deception. We have up to the present destroyed about 60 of these coin received over the bank counter, and are, of course, using overy care to protect wurselves against loss.

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Mr. T. U. "The senior magistrate informs us that he is of opinion that the modus operandi was to shear off the Whitehead. exterior portions of a genuine coin, and then fill the

20 Jan. 1903. interior with a metallic substance.

1742. If the Straits Settlements adopted a gold stan- dard on the basis of 22d. for the ounce of silver, or 24d., or 26d., or 28d., the temptation to false coinage of the sort you have described would not be so groat?-"No, it would not be so great.

1743. But if silver fell very much more, it might be considerable 7-It might be considerable; the induce- ment to coining false coins would be considerabie, and would increase as the gold price of silver fell.

1744. And you also point out that the change to a gold standard in the Straits would be attended with considerable difficulties in practice because the currency in circulation there is now the Mexican dollar and the British dollar? Yes.

1745. Which circulate largely in other countries --To the extent of hundreds of millions; in fact, Singaporu and the Straits Settlements are in the midst of a sea of dollar money on all sides.

1746. And you point out now that different countries Great Britain, France, and others—have a large amount of silver money in circulation the metal in which is very much below the face value of the coins?—Yes, quite so.

1747. Is that a satisfactory state of things ?—I think it is positively disgraceful, and discreditable.

1748. Well, apart from the question of disgrace, do you think there is any danger in it; I should not mind the disgrace if there was no danger in it?—I think it is eminently unentisfactory, and undoubtedly is attended with danger. It may be doing its duty remarkably well, but it is not crediable at all, and offers a strong inducement to counterfeiting.

1749. Do you think that any dangers in practice might arise from that state of things I think it is quite possible.

1750. In other words, do you think there is anywhere danger of counterfeiting in good silver to a very large extent? I think there is the strongest inducement possible to following such a proceeding.

Tol. The British Mint makes a large profit now in coining silver coins?-Yes, very large; not less than £6,600,000 in the last 12 years.

1752. And you represent that the metallic value of a shilling at present is 4d. ?—That is really so.

1753. Then you also point out that the Straits Settle- ments are a great distributing contra-collecting centre and distributing centre for the trade of the adjacent countries? That is so.

1754. And that there have been no Castoms dutio levied P-Absolutely none; they have been free porta, and their freedom has in a very large measure contri- buted to their marvellous prosperity.

1755. And you think if they adopted a gold standard the advantages which they derive at prosont from their situation and from their having the samo currency as the other countries that use silver, and also from their freedom from Custom duties, might be interfered with P -Yes, seriously interfered with.

1756. Notes are very generally made use of in re Straits Settlements ?-Within the last few years the increase has been enormous, and would have been larger And the Government had an adequate supply of paper notes.

1757. Can you account for the difference between the Straits Settlements and India India, where notes are so little used in proportion to the population, and the Struts Settlements, where they are so largely used?--- Well, in India the people there from all time, one may say, from their infancy upwards, have been taught to trust and to believe in silver far more than in paper money.

1758. But how is it that they believe in silver rather than paper as compared with the people in the Straits Settlements The Indians are a different race of people from the Malaya and the Chinese. There is a very large percentage of the population of the States and the Straits Chinese. The Indians when they get silver hoard it; they convert it into bangles, toe rings, and earrings, and into all sorts of different things of that description, and hoarding is more the custom in India. than in the Straits or in China.