CO882-(4-5) — Page 319

PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

Reference :-

EPER C.O. 882

5 PUBLIC RECORD OFFIC

ALLY WITHOUT PERMISSED THE BE REPRODUCED PHOTOGRAPHIC- COPYRIGHT PHOTOGRAPH-NOT TO

DON

Mr.' W". Gi. Cintland.

14

COLONIAL CURRENCY COMMITTEE:

366. (Lord Furrer.) How do you propose to limit the quantity of dollars ?—I do not know. The 12 July 1993. Indiau Government could say what amount they

would give us, and we should have to draw on those. 1 should think it would be possible to come to some arrangement.

367. The Indian Government, as the Chairman suggested, are limited in this way, that they give rupros for Rovereigns at this exchange ?—Yes.

368. Well, if they give dollars for sovereigns at that exchange you would be in the same position as the people in India were?—Yes.

369. (Sir R. Welby.) Could not the Straits Settle- ments send dollars and the Indian Mint coin a 2. Gd. or 2s. 8d. dollar? Would the Straits like that?

370, (Chairman.) I thought of that. Take a cer- fain amount; suppose you put the present necessities at five millions sterling?-I do not think it would be as much as that. I think a million sterling would be ample. I do not think we want a million. The whole circulation of the bunks does not come to a million.

371. In that case, even if you converted them, treating the Mexican dollar as of its present value, 25. 6. against 2a. Bd., the difference on a million would not be a serious matter ?-No. I used to think it would be worth while for the people who get the two-rupee dollar to pay the cost, but I am told in such cases the Government bears the expense of ruaking the change in currency.

372. After you have got enough to start with then, I suppose, you see no objection, after that, to an arrangement by which, if more were wantel, you should make the thing automatic by the Indian Governnient coining the two-rupee piece as against gold?-Certainly. At present the banks pay gold for Mexicans in London and ship them out; in future they would ship from Bombay or Calcutta.

373. It would suit better, if a further supply were wanted, that the Indian Government give these two- ruper pieces, 21, 8d. ?—I expect the banks would be

continually buying and shipping, but a lot of Singa pore men object to India getting the profit. They state that India would make a large profit; and they "We are very needy and want the profit." But I believe there is no profit in coining upon this basis. I am told that where you have to keep the gold against it the profit goes.

Kay:

374. Well, 1 suppose, there might be profit if silver falls very much ?-I mean if we had a gold dollar of our own and coined it here, we should have to keep gold against it and find the silver, or at least pay the silver out of the gold, and keep the balance.

378. If there were profit which the Singapore Government kept you could hardly allow them to keep the double rupees coined to any extent, for there would be advantage in getting them coinel for the sake of the profit ?-Certainly. I expect it would be made an imperial quotation and the whole thing regulated at home, say between the India Office and the Colonial Office.

876. What are the grounds of objection of those who object to Singapore going on a gold basin ?—They say there are many difficulties in the way.

877. It is rather a practical objection ?—Mr. Gilfl- lan will give you the objectious.

378. (Mr. Courtney.) At present the objectors are the more numerous ?They are the more noisy.

379. (Sir R. Welby.) You say that one million dollars woull meet it ?-Not one million dollars, one million sterling.

390. There is no evidence for Singapore, and I do not rely on the evidence for Hong Kong. Houg Kong is about half as populous as the Straits. They estimate the coin in use in Hong Kong at ten millions; that would give you twenty for Singapore? I think they have more coinage in Hong Kong than we have. Mr. Mende will tell you they take ten times more subsidiary coinage than we do.

381. (Mr. Meade.) The larger proportion of that to Chitin ?-I not that ten millions held in

reserva against note issue? Notes in part would do for us, as well as dollars. Mr. Swettenham in his last roport on Perak was bemoaning the want of notes.

882. (Chairman.) Against the notes the bank holds silver dollars ?—One-third, and of course they would hold one-third of the new dollars whatever they were.

883. (Mr. Fairfield.) I think the bank reserve in cash is more than one-third of the issue. They are bound by law to keep one-third, but as a matter of fact I think the reserves equal the issue. They have cash reserves against current accounts.

Yon had a bank in liquidation ?—Yes, and the notes came almost

to a man.

384. And were not cashed out of ear-marked money?That I cannot tell.

885. They were not paid put of any ear-marked money, but out of general assets-You inspect the reserve every month in Singapore, Mr. Meade ?

386 (Mr Meade.) No.-I think you send to see if the reserve is sufficient?

387. That would be really no check, because the dollars may not be there on the Monday, may be there on the Tuesday, and gone on the Wednesday?— I quite agree with you, but still, Government used, I think, to go through the form.

388. I do not think so. One question I want to ask you.

Your interest is not the same as the Chinese population who are the bulk of the inhabitants. You are interested in a stable exchange as between Singapore and England in repect of goods imported from England and money remitted to England ?—Yes.

380. But you say Chinamen do not care about that, for they can calculate about exchange in their trans- nctione, and would be content to use the Mexicaui doller. That is, I think, what you said. But what I want to know is, whother Chinaman would not strongly object, when he finds he has to pay Govern- ment more silver than he has been accustomed to, to provide for your new dollar, He will have to pay his

dues to the Government, and he will not be able to pay in Mexican dollars, which he can buy cheap, but must pay them in your dollar, which he finds dear. Would that give rise to discontent ?-When the dollar was 5. he paid it, and I do not see why he should object to pay in a dollar of 2s. 8d. Besides, the change will not be perceptible if we can make it before any farther great drop in the value takes place. If we made it now, the change would he imperceptible.

390. (Mr. Courtney.) In any change the difference between you and India is this. In India there is a stock of rupees; they know the limit, and that it cannot be added to except by the Government. In Singapore, on the contrary, there is an indefinite supply of dollars, and if you take a step to demonetise the existing dollars, you do something radically different from India. Your change would be a strain on the money value of dollars in circulation ?--It is no doubt, in its way, a more complex question than that in India.

391. The rupee in India holds the field, whereas your new double rupee has to establish a position?— Certainly.

892. But in India there can be nothing but the rupee? There can be no doubt in Indir. And if the dollar came to le. 6d. it would be a very great chauge, and therefore more difficult to make.

393. Is there not there an answer to the remark that the change would be imperceptible? It is not perceptible in India, because the rupee exists; but in China, in Singapore, the dollar would be something perfectly different ?—It all depends on the value of the Mexican at the time of the change.

394. And China merchants are the

distrib- utors? The Chinaiso would have to allow for the difference.

395. Are you not shifting the difficulty from your shoulder to the Chinaman's ?-No, not altogether. His risk would be a shorter one than ours now is, and

to a large extent his is a barter business, so he does

not feel the question of exchange so much,

MINUTES OF EVIDENCE.

396. He does not feel it now, but he would in the fature? I do not think so to any great extent. Speaking generally, the gold price regulates the silver price. Hitherto, as silver fell, the native got the mora for his produce, but the European markets see through that now, and, fearing over production, buyers on this side now put down prices, or hold off buying, when they see silver falling. So in the long run it will be the gold countries, through being able to buy cheaply that will get the advantage; while, owing to the law of supply and demand, competition, &c., the producer is silver countries will find that he has as a rale to be content with a bare margin of profit on the cost of production in silver.

397. Would it not be the result ultimately that the silver price would go up ?—I think not.

398. (Lord Farrer.) Somebody told us that wages in Hong Kong or Singapore had risen 15 or 20 por cent. in 10 years?---i am told the cost of living there for Europeans is clearer.

399. I do not quite understand this plan you propose, that Singapore shall send to India money to he coined. They would take these dollars at market value, of silver plus what they charge for coinage? I should like India to take them weight for weight in siiver.

400. Suppo1e your coin were at market ratio, there would be neither gain uor loss?-Except cost of coining,

401. Assuming that they came out coin in another form than you sont, then silver falls more, and your dollar has a gold valuo; then it is worth a great deal more than the silver it contains ?—Yes.

402. Worth more than the silver it contains? -Yes.

403. When have

got to that point, are you quite sure you will be able to maintain that value, and what precautions do you take to maintain it ?—We do not propose to take any precautious. We love India to see to that; and if India could not keep up the value it would fall.

you

404. (Chairman.) You woull have a two-rupee price, and call it a dollar ?--Yes, and a good thing for ludin; it would make a greater market for har silver.

405. You would give the Indian Government so ne control of issue, because its value depends on the number issued ?-Quite so, but I take it the Indino Government would always be willing to sell if paid in gold.

406. And if there was free coinage in the Court of Singapore ?--You would have them coined to any extent, and exchange would go down.

407. I want to see how you would keep up the vilue ?

408. (Lord Farrer.) By making it a legal tender

in India.

409. (Chairman.) Then you must give the Indian Government control over the quantity issued.

410. (Lord Farrer.) Do you mean to make the Singapore Government liable to give gold for silver ? - tio not know what you recommend Indis to do. We know we can get 15 rupees for a sovereign.

411. (Chairman.) But you do not say that India would give a sovereign for 13 rupees ?-No.

412. But would it carry out the object in view if, in the first instance, a certain given limited amount were coined of this new double ruper, or dollar; and then, after that, additional double rupees or dolları were only coined on the same terms as rupees are coined in n ratio to 1s. 4d. ?~~~Certainly, as long as we get a start by having our Mexicans changed,

413. (Sir R. Welby.) How would you make a start; would you make an i-nue of 5,000,000 dollars ? By an issue of a certain quantity for which we would send Mexicans.

up

414 I do not know whether I understood you rightly, that even after the double rupee, which you call ̧n dollar, had been is med, the Chinaman woul·l receive and pass from hand to hand the Mexican dollar ?-In his trade with the outside countries they would use Mexican dollar.

15

Mr. W. G. Gulland.

415. Only for outside ?-Only outside. 416. Would there not be some difficulty if two dollars as a matter of practice circulated in the Straite, the one, 380 grains of silver, and the other 337 -The 12 Joly 1893. Mexican dollar would not be a legal tender.

417. If both were circulating in the Colony, would it not be difficult of adjustment as between msa and man, and give rise to discontent in regulating price under it? It would not be two equal dollara ?—There would be the market price for Mexicans.

418. (Mr. Moade.) Then that difficulty arises with regard to the yen ?-That would be no longer legal ten ler,

419. (Mr. Courtney.) The various denominations are all of the same value? The yen and the Mexican are of the same value?—The yen is supposed to be au imitation of the Mexican. Sir Hercules Robinson, in his Report, was right. He named the Mexican because it was the dollar then in use; Imt I do not think he meant they would take nothing but the Mexican; he meant that they took the dollar in preference to any other coin.

420. (Mr. Fairfield.) There are said to be two grains less fine silver in the yen than the Mexican dollar-I do not know.

421. You spoke of mortgages just now, and you want a steady value for interest. In all Orders in Council relating to carrency there is a saving clause that nothing therein provided as to the fixing of a new standard eball affect existing contracts, and there- fore if that saving clause be repeated, you caunot be paid in the new dollar if you are a creditor ?-To leave out mortgages would greatly simplify the change, but it would be very hard lines for the mortgagees.

422. The clause is univerzal ?—I do not think our mortgages expressly state Mexican dollars.

423. Anyhow the contracts are in dollars, not double rupees. If you made a mortgage nine years ago to be repaid in dollars, you could not turu on the debtor- that is, if the saving clause is repeated-and say, "You must pay ine in double rupees."

He would any "That is not my bargain "P-It would be hard lines for the man who leat the money if he is excluded from any change made.

421. (Mr. Courtney.) You must drop the saving

clause.

425. (Chairman.) There is question, whether there is a natural right to benefit by a fall in the down, but not tha benefit of rising. value of a coin. You have got the benefit of going

426. (Mr. Fairfield.) I suppose higher interest would be expected when the lending is in silver than when it is in gold ?—I do not think a man can complain, the dollar baving been much higher when he borrowed the money, if he is asked to repay at 2r. 8d.

427. (Chairman.) It is not suggested you should change the denomination; it will be a dollar. He will get a coin with as much silver in it.

428. (Mr. Fairfield.) Oh, yes.

429. (Chairman.) No; by the bye a double rupee dollar would have less silver than a Mexicnu dollar ?—— It would have a little lem. My partner, Mr. Paterson, proposed it should be 21 rupees.

480. (Mr. Courtney.) That would make it more silver? That would make it more silver. It would not fit in so well with the subsidiary coinage. We have 23 ccut, 10 cent, and 6 cent pieces ; 23 would be half a rupee or quarter of a dollar.

431. (Lord Farrer.) Do you mint them yourselves? -No, we get them from England. If we might get them from India it would help to keep their Mint going.

432. (Mr. Courtney.) You never had à Mint at Singapore?-No never.

438. (Lord Farrer.) You do not use the Australian sovereigns at Singapore -Money-changers have them. You can buy gold in Singapore from bankers and money-changers.

434. Can you tell what the dollar was in 1802, last year?

B 4