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PUBLIC RECORD OFFICE

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Colony possessed about 316,000 souls in all, and that 216,000 of these were Indians or of Indian origin, and of these latter again, 118,000 (76,000 males and 39,000 females) were settled on sugar estates, mostly, if not all, under engagement. And out of these 76,000 males, not 3,000, as his honourable friend had said, but 90,000 were born in the Of these 30,000, 14,000 were females, and 16,000 island, and of Indian origin. males.

The Honourable Mr. Beyts.—That includes all ages.

The Honourable Mr. Stein.-Yes, all ages. There were 16,000 males, and the number of those under 10 years of age, Indian and Colonial born, was 18,000. This deducted from 10,000 would give 3,000. But as the number of children who have arrived in the meantime is includ in the 18,000, it is clear that this figure of 3,000 cannot be correct. He did not pretend to say how many, but it must be a certain number, and therefore he could not admit the calculation of his honourable friend, based upon the statements of the Stipendiary Magistrates that there were only 3,000 Indian Creoles engaged. It was evident that the data did not agree. If it was correct that there were 6,000 males, men and boys, working on sugar estates, it must be the case that a certain number, he could not say precisely how many, but perhaps 5,000, 6,000, or 8,000, who had come here during the last 4, 5, or 6 years; those would count for something, and he could not in the least admit that there were only 3,000 Indians born in the Colony on estates. The numbers must be very different. If from the 76,000 males you took the boys under 10 years of age, 13,000, you had left 63,000 people engaged on the sugar catates, which corresponded with the Returns of the numbers engaged on 30th June on sugar estates; but to that you must add men, old immigrants, more than 5,000, working on estates with job contractors, so that in all you had 68,000 to 60,000, say 69,000, under engagement. Out of that large number they had got but 5,580 new immigrants, and the rest had served their 5 years of industrial service, and many of them had been 10, 15, and 20 years on the same estate. Ho did not wish to exaggerate, but he believed men had been known to have been on estates for as long as twenty-five years, and never to have gone out of it. He saw an instance of this the other day in looking over the books of an estate, and the result of the abolition of return passages had therefore been, that we had obtained a much more orderly, settled, and better class of population than when they were done away with. Apart from those engaged on the estates, you had 100,000 people engaged in all the other branches of industry afforded by the country, and here you had 29,000 Indian crooles as against 30,000 Indian Creoles on the estates. Here you had 64,000 males and 35,000 formales, and if you deducted from the 64,000 the number of boys under ten years of age you had left 55,000. For 32,000 of these the Protector accounts in his census under the head of domestic servants, shopkeepers, hawkers, gardeners, &c., &c. And therein must be added the 5,000 odd men employed by job contractors; in all, 37,000 to 38,000, leaving the not considerable number of 17,000 to 18,000 men employed as labourers in the town of Port Louis and in the country districts, exclusive of the sugar estates.

It has been argued that these people are idle and useless, but that can be said only of a certain residuum among them. Some of these people are themselves considerable employers of labour, some were possessed of considerable property, and the bulk of them were good and useful Colonists. There were, no doubt, too, among them, some of those useless beings who were a charge to any community in which they chanced to fall. With the immigration we have had during the last thirty years, the poorest class of Indians, it is impossible that this should not be the case; among but the bulk of this population is well to do, and if any of them are content with less than the wages to be earned on the sugar estates, it is because they prefer to be their own masters, and to do as they please, to regular work and regular hours.

The Protector had insinuated that this measure was a necessity to ensure immi- gration on a large scale, but for his part he did not believe that in future immigration on a very large scale would be necessary. The number of Indians returning to India had lately been about 3,000 to 4,000 annually. These would require to be replaced, and the prospect of a good crop of sugar would also cause an extra demand for labour. But as that would give the means to pay for an extended immigration, that could not be considered a misfortune; for it is a case of demand for labour, which must be supplied. He had often heard it urged that Indians should be removed because they caused undue competition with our own people. But we must not, cannot admit any such reason na that; without immigrants we should be nowhere, and if we cannot do without immigrants we must at least give them the right to make the best and most enjoyable use of their time after they have completed their industrial residence. Of course if men are idle and criminal nothing can be said for them, and they must be

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left to the law; but that was not, he believed, the case with this class of persons, and be trusted he should never again hear it used as an appeal for the removal of Indians, that they entered into the honest competition of trade with the inhabitants of the island.

Again, he had heard it said that there was a danger of this class of the population being too largely increased through the cupidity of the planters, who, to save money, would send for fresh immigrants, instead of employing those already on the island. That was an argument which would only be used by those who knew nothing about the state of things. The cost of the introduction of these new immigrants was from 121. to 141. cach, to which you had to add the chances of sickness or desertion, and, on the top of all, you had to put up with inefficiently performed work for the first year or two. Was it probable that a master would dream of sending for new immigrants so long as he could get labourers in the island at a proportionate advance in wages, and at a price that would enable him to live. He would much rather pay the advance in wages than pay for the new immigrants. The new people would get 5 rupees a month as wages, while the price for the old Indians is 8, 9, and sometimes 10 rupees, and yet people prefer to pay the latter price rather than to send for new people; and, therefore, he could not in the least believe that the permanent population would be greatly increased from that cause. Of course, if wages were unnaturally increased, the planters would have to defend themselves; but as long as they have only to pay the natural increase of wages for the improved labourer, there is no likelihood of their incurring the expense of importing immigrants; and that being the case, the fears of the Protector of Immigrants, that within twenty years we might have the redundant population of 600,000 souls, were groundless. He believed that if they revived return passages they would create a spirit of discontent among the existing population, who would be debarred from participation in the benefit; and it would be much better to adopt the policy proposed by the Immigration Committee in 1851, to give rather a bounty to induce people to remain here, than to offer a premium for them to go away. It was not a return passage that they ought to give, but they ought to give a bounty. He did not say it was necessary-for he believed that they could always obtain the real number of immigrants they wanted-but if it was necessary to offer inducements to immigrants, it must be clear that the better policy was to offer a bounty to people consing here than to pay them a premium to go away. The Protector of Immigrants had referred to the agreement entered into between this and the Indian Government at the time of the abolition, but he must remind the Board that at the time that agreement was entered into the cost of a passage was something like 80s. to 40s. ; i. e., something not exceeding 21., and which was considered equal to about five months' pay. The Protector has referred to the rise of the price of the passage, but he has ignored the rise of the price of wages, and that therefore the price of the passage is still not more than that of five months, the principle on which the agreement was based. He believed he had answered most of the points of the speech of the Protector of Immigrants; but if not, as was possible from its grost length, they would be taken up, and in a far abler manner than he commanded, by his colleagues.

The Honourable Mr. Roowl thought that the arguments in favour of the Resolution could be brought into a very narrow compass. It was usual in such arguments to put forward, as the principle, pleas of justice and humanity; but no such plesa had been advanced that day, for the very simple reason that they did not exist. No injustice could be reproached to the planters of Mauritius for not granting free back passages, because the Indian coming to this island under an agreement which he had entered into of free will, and under the paternal, the jealous protection of the Indian Govern- ment, which is much more disposed to discourage than encourage emigration. And as for that greater question, that of humanity, that was disposed of, for the law enacted that all Indians who were incapacitated from work by old age, sickness, or any other cause, could by law be granted a free return passage. These two great points being disposed of, it is reduced to a matter of business, a mere matter of administration, and we have simply to examine whether it is our interest, and that of immigration and agriculture, to give free back passages. He must say that he had been more favourable to the Resolution before than since he had read the papers on the subject. He knew that the motion was approved of by a few leading men, but he might be forgiven if he said he wanted something more than personal appreciations to counter balance the weighty reasons which, some twenty years ago, induced the Legislature and the Government of this Colony, the Ministers of Great Britain, and the Government of of India, to rescind the former law, after an investigation of about three years' duration. And what were the facts that were brought forward that day in support of the argu-

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